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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Noveske has now come out with a 16 inch barrel with a mid length gas system. Is it true that this will make the rifle more reliable and last longer? If so, is it worth getting the 16 inch barrel over the 14.5 inch?

What do you guys think?
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Middy's are all the rage these days. Supposedly there is no reason NOT to go middy. Looks better, more reliable, easier on parts, longer sight radius, and you can attach a regular bayonet to a middy.

But to me it is really a moot point. Unless you are shooting full auto and don't like to carry spare bolts, a carbine will serve you fine. There are reports of semi-auto carbines going 20k rounds without parts breaking.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
But to me it is really a moot point. Unless you are shooting full auto and don't like to carry spare bolts, a carbine will serve you fine.
+1

As for your question about the midlength making the rifle last longer and more reliable: maybe, maybe not, in that order.

I know a lot of folks are buying into the idea that they might last longer and honestly they may in that respect, but some folks don't like them for reliability reasons because of the gas port placement (specifically less gas dwell time in the op system) because they tend to cycle "softer" will make it more likely to be finicky in "not so ideal" conditions, and it would seem logical the gas port sizing and the gas tube itself would play a large role in how long it would remain reliable.

Honestly just sitting and thinking about how things work, would seem the gas port would erode slower in the middy which is a good thing, but since there is not as much backpressure being blown through the gas tube, would be easier to become clogged with use and not cycle as well if it or the reciever innards are not maintained like it should be.

I suppose the gas port could be drilled larger to allow more pressure to go into the tube (and it may be but I don't know one way or another as fact), but the port placement being so close to the muzzle still won't allow as long of a duration of the pressure curve because it's closer to the end of the barrel no matter what.

I'm not saying a middy is a bad choice all around or anything, because I don't know what your expected use is, but as with anything, there are pro's and con's to everything and you just have to weigh them and decide what's best for you. I won't be mad no matter which one you buy :lol: Get what you like and feel most comfortable with.;-)
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
+1

As for your question about the midlength making the rifle last longer and more reliable: maybe, maybe not, in that order.

I know a lot of folks are buying into the idea that they might last longer and honestly they may in that respect, but some folks don't like them for reliability reasons because of the gas port placement (specifically less gas dwell time in the op system) because they tend to cycle "softer" will make it more likely to be finicky in "not so ideal" conditions, and it would seem logical the gas port sizing and the gas tube itself would play a large role in how long it would remain reliable.

Honestly just sitting and thinking about how things work, would seem the gas port would erode slower in the middy which is a good thing, but since there is not as much backpressure being blown through the gas tube, would be easier to become clogged with use and not cycle as well if it or the reciever innards are not maintained like it should be.

I suppose the gas port could be drilled larger to allow more pressure to go into the tube (and it may be but I don't know one way or another as fact), but the port placement being so close to the muzzle still won't allow as long of a duration of the pressure curve because it's closer to the end of the barrel no matter what.

I'm not saying a middy is a bad choice all around or anything, because I don't know what your expected use is, but as with anything, there are pro's and con's to everything and you just have to weigh them and decide what's best for you. I won't be mad no matter which one you buy :lol: Get what you like and feel most comfortable with.;-)
By your logic a full sized M16 would be less reliable than a M4 because of dwell time, length of gas system , ect My Armalite Middy is reliable, Accurate smooth and the handgaurds are long enough to keep me from burning my Gorilla hands on the gas block/Front sight. Its recoil impulse falls exactly between a M4 and a full sized rifle if the system lasts longer than a M4 its a bonus but with ammo prices going the way they are I doubt unless I fall into a huge stockpile of ammo or components or money I'll be able to wear the gun out.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The point I'm trying to make is that one isn't necessarily better than another, just different and I really believe poor maintenance on the middy will cause a problem in it faster than a carbine length would before experiencing "jams" being their drawback.

As for the 20 inch barrel, I wasn't comparing a 20 inch with either 16 inch system and you took my example out of the context that I was talking about.

In a longer barrel, the gasses are distributed over a wider area before the gas port so there isn't as much peak pressure when the gasses hits the gas port and in a rifle length on a 20 inch barrel, the gas port is farther from the muzzle allowing more dwell time of the gasses to do its' thing.

My point with the 16 inch midlength is the shorter distance past the gas port to the muzzle that is a concern for me in a 16 inch barrel. Shorter dwell time.

Not as much pressure hitting the gas key after the bullet exits the muzzle, will invariably make it cycle "softer" (and we know it does) and my way of looking at it, will be more likely to experience a malfunction before a carbine length would if comparing apples. Though I honestly don't see an area of concern there as long as the gun is taken care of and clean.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
My point with the 16 inch midlength is the shorter distance past the gas port to the muzzle that is a concern for me in a 16 inch barrel. Shorter dwell time.
Your concern about dwell time (while a valid concern) is unfounded. The carbine gas system was designed to be used with 11.5" barrels, giving ~4.5" of barrel between the gas port, and had no issues with reliability or abnormal wear. 16" barrels with midlength gas systems, on the other hand, have about 7" between the gas port and muzzle.

If anything, the popular 16" barrel/carbine gas system has way too much 'dwell time' with respect to the location of the gas port, increasing pressures inside the gas system, resulting in a sharper impulse delivered to the BCG and a minor acceleration of wear (all reasons for the creation of heavy buffers, pigtail gas tubes, 'enhanced' BCG's, and the midlength gas system).

Assuming your barrel length is going to be between 14.5 and 18", the only downside is that free-float rail choices are not quite as prolific as those for the carbine gas system, although thats becoming a non-issue, as most major manufacturers make midlength forearms.

ETA: Here's some good reading on the topic:
After you pull the trigger - M4Carbine.net Forums
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I've got a question... I'm interested in getting myself an AR15 within six months or so and I'm still reading up on the literature when I get time. But anyway I wanted to know what kind of problems may develop if I were to get a 14.5" with a permanent flash hider installed?
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Not sure what you're asking about problems. Hopefully none if it's together right.:cool: People make them like that all the time.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
From a personal point of view I haven't noticed a recoil impulse difference between the carbine and middies. And given that the science involved has already been discussed, my personal opinion is that the longer sight radius is the most obvious advantage to the typical civilian shooter.

The majority of issues we hear about the AR platform come from such heavy usages that most civilians typically don't see. Yeah with the science explained (thank you guys) you can see where there can be a slight reduction in parts wear, but come now. When was the last time you ran 400+ rounds in single shot and burst fire within a few hours and not cleaned your weapon.... for weeks at a time?


The long and short is that both the carbine and middies are fine.. you'll have to decide based on your intended use which fits your needs better.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I've got a question... I'm interested in getting myself an AR15 within six months or so and I'm still reading up on the literature when I get time. But anyway I wanted to know what kind of problems may develop if I were to get a 14.5" with a permanent flash hider installed?
I know of one big problem. After you get it you'll want another, then another. You'll soon be broke buying rifles.
 
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