AR/AK vs 9mm/45acp

2579 Views 28 Replies 0 Participants Last post by TexicanKid, Feb 26, 2007

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Discussion Starter · Feb 24, 2007

I was curious to know everyones views on this topic. I think there is a lot of experience and knowledge here and would like to see a little spirited debate. I KNOW there are a lot of other factors and it will be very easy to take this post off on tangents but I just wondered:

For those who prefer an AR over an AK for the "accuracy and increased capacity to carry ammo" etc, etc, vs the "stopping power and reliability etc, etc" of the AK. Do you carry a 9mm or a 45acp? I know it is apples and oranges, but just wondered if you held the same views with a pistol as a rifle or if you felt differently with one versus the other. I dont think there are any absolutes either way but just opinions.

I appreciate everyones .02. It was either go shopping with the wife and mother-in-law for furniture for our nursery or spend my afternoon with you guys. I picked XDtalk.

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Discussion Starter · #2 · Feb 24, 2007

Ak 74 to an AR. Can be just as accurate, will eat anything.
9mm to 45acp. More rounds per mag, been around longer, well proven round through 2 world wars and still going strong. 45, well proven round through one world war and numerous conflicts. big, heavy, and slow. I just like the 9mm better.....

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Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 24, 2007

I have a .223 AK and AR. AR's don't really have increased mag capacity, so not for sure what the argument is there. I like the controlability of the .223 vs the 7.62, but I don't knock those who prefer the original AK. Like Einheit said, there's the 5.45x39mm round that sort of bridges the gap.

I carry a 1911 Government model whenever I can, unless I'm stuck in a dress shirt and tie with no jacket. I have a 9mm XD with a light on it that is one of my 2 bedside guns (12 gauge with light is the other one). I don't really have a preference, and trust anything over 38 Spl to do the job with good bullet placement.

Life's too short. Shoot what you want.

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Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 24, 2007

Welcome to the forum.

ETA: I took too long writing this, so forgive any duplicate info to those who have already posted.

That's quite a question, and the answer I'd give is.....own them all. They're so different in their own ways that even comparing AR's to AK's is a bit of a stretch. Ammo capacity, for all intents and purposes, is the same between the two, as you can get 20 and 30 rounds magazines for both fairly easily (unless the new legislation passes :evil: ). Both rifles embody completely different philosophies of how an assault rifle should be built: the AR is more reliant on close-tolerance manufacturing and high-tech materials, the AK deliberately built with loose tolerances to ensure reliability in bad conditions, and of cheaper materials. Both can be made to be quite accurate, with the AR taking honors in this category (stock) out past 300 yards or so. There are many aftermarket accessories for both types, with the AR probably having more options, but everything about it is more expensive. My personal choice is to own an AK first (as soon as I get the money), but that's mainly for reasons of cost.

As far as the pistols go, I prefer .45 mainly because I like the way it shoots. I like the feel of the slower, heavier recoil, and I prefer bigger bullets (even if they're slower). On the other hand, 9mm is definitely cheaper to shoot (unless you reload your .45), and it's recoil characteristics make it more pleasant for folks like my wife who regard the .45 as "just a bit too much" for comfort. Many 9mm pistols have higher capacities than .45's, even compared to hi-cap guns like the XD and other double-stacks.

Own them all. Which one to buy first is the hard question.

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Discussion Starter · #5 · Feb 24, 2007

They are all tools. I just use whatever fits the job.

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Discussion Starter · #6 · Feb 24, 2007

I think he is refrencing the ability to carry more ammo for a given weight between the two rounds. It is true you can carry more 5.56 for the same weight of 7.62.

Personally I think it's a personall choice. Either round gets the job done and the debate over which is better is never going to end. Its like the ford vs. chevy debate and so on and so forth.

The AR platform deffinatly has the upper hand when it comes to ergos and adjustability to the user. The AR platform just has many more acc. and such but the AK platform is starting to catch up.

So shoot both pick the one you like best. The AR is you can make it TATICOOL easily the AK takes a little more work and isn't as "cool" in some circles. I don't care about cool I just want the thing to fire no matter what happened to it before I need it to fire.

Personally I like the AK better, I like knowing that I can go swiming in a big mudpit with it come out on the other side and have it shoot everytime.

And the fact is most firefights occour WITHIN 300 yards/meters so the two are about equal in that respect. I will give the longer range accuracy to the AR though.

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Discussion Starter · #7 · Feb 24, 2007

jeepinbanditrider said:
I think he is refrencing the ability to carry more ammo for a given weight between the two rounds. It is true you can carry more 5.56 for the same weight of 7.62.

Personally I think it's a personall choice. Either round gets the job done and the debate over which is better is never going to end. Its like the ford vs. chevy debate and so on and so forth.

The AR platform deffinatly has the upper hand when it comes to ergos and adjustability to the user. The AR platform just has many more acc. and such but the AK platform is starting to catch up.

So shoot both pick the one you like best. The AR is you can make it TATICOOL easily the AK takes a little more work and isn't as "cool" in some circles. I don't care about cool I just want the thing to fire no matter what happened to it before I need it to fire.

Personally I like the AK better, I like knowing that I can go swiming in a big mudpit with it come out on the other side and have it shoot everytime.

And the fact is most firefights occour WITHIN 300 yards/meters so the two are about equal in that respect. I will give the longer range accuracy to the AR though.

I can carry more 5.45 than .223, I can go alot farther out than 300m too...its not the weapon, its the round......

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Discussion Starter · #8 · Feb 24, 2007

I've got the .45 (HK USP 45) and .223 (Ruger Mini-14)

I used to have an SKS. Wish I had kept it.

As long as it works, use it. 9mm or .45 are both good. (I have a Hi-Point 995--9mm, wouldn't recommend this)

Concerning rifle cartridges, I would use .308 if I had my druthers, but the AR-10 or FAL will have to wait. And, the cost is up there for .308 in quantity. I've got a 7mm Rem Mag for long distance!

One thing that some have mentioned is the ability to carry more of the 9mm and .223.

Can you imagine how hard it was to carry much 30-06 and .45 back in the day? Those were men.

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Discussion Starter · #9 · Feb 24, 2007

einheit 13 said:
I can carry more 5.45 than .223, I can go alot farther out than 300m too...its not the weapon, its the round......

I figured he was mainly talking about the 47 not the 74. I was comparing the 7.62x39's weight to the 5.56's weight. Now if we were talking AK-74 then yess the 5.45's weight would be much more comparable to the 5.56.

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Discussion Starter · #10 · Feb 24, 2007

Lots of good opinions so far. I think its good to see different perspectives and take a little from each one to learn. "Stealing from one person is plagarisim, but stealing from many is research." I was referring to number of rounds per relative weight and not magazine capacity, so sorry for the vagueness. Preacher, you said it brother. I would have hated to hump a BAR, plus ammo and other gear across Europe or the Pacific. Right up to the point a firefight broke out, then I suspect it felt a whole lot lighter. Those guys werent called the greatest generation for nothing. By the way, where in Alabama are you? I grew up in Prattville and still have family there and Mobile.

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Discussion Starter · #11 · Feb 24, 2007

PT Doc said:
I grew up in Prattville and still have family there and Mobile.

No kidding my Dad grew up in Millbrook. The Downs Family. My dad's entire family pretty much lives in that area.

Where did you go to HS at?

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Discussion Starter · #12 · Feb 24, 2007

Only high school in town, good old Prattville High.

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Discussion Starter · #13 · Feb 24, 2007

You happen to know any Downses?

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Discussion Starter · #14 · Feb 24, 2007

No one is coming to mind, sorry. Back in the day, we didnt hang out with kids from other towns much. Too busy cruising and committing misdemeanors.

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Discussion Starter · #15 · Feb 24, 2007

Just wondering. Millbrook ain't that far away from Prattville. Neat to meet people from my parts of the world.

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Discussion Starter · #16 · Feb 24, 2007

Use whast you have, get what you need, shoot all you can. Your pref probably will not matter when it comes down to it. It is, "did I use my head?"

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Discussion Starter · #17 · Feb 24, 2007

PT Doc said:
I was curious to know everyones views on this topic. I think there is a lot of experience and knowledge here and would like to see a little spirited debate. I KNOW there are a lot of other factors and it will be very easy to take this post off on tangents but I just wondered:

For those who prefer an AR over an AK for the "accuracy and increased capacity to carry ammo" etc, etc, vs the "stopping power and reliability etc, etc" of the AK. Do you carry a 9mm or a 45acp? I know it is apples and oranges, but just wondered if you held the same views with a pistol as a rifle or if you felt differently with one versus the other. I dont think there are any absolutes either way but just opinions.

I appreciate everyones .02. It was either go shopping with the wife and mother-in-law for furniture for our nursery or spend my afternoon with you guys. I picked XDtalk.

AR-15 vs. AK-47

AR-15 more accurate but is known to jam frequently. Maybe newer guns alleviate this somewhat; still I do not trust the design other than at the range.
More modularized (i.e., can take special attachments).
Cheap .223 round with brass casings.
Round can do extreme mortal damage within certain ranges (20 yds to 100 yds?), is of questionable power, otherwise.
A little more effort to disassemble and reassemle.

AK-47 far more reliable.
Easier to disassemble and reassemble.
7.62 x 39mm is powerful mid-range round.
Not nearly as accurate as AR-15, but good enough to print a pattern on political campaign posters, should you use those at the range.
More fun to shoot (in my opinion. Loud, poweful, fast rate of semi-auto fire).
Ammo is cheap, but the Russian stuff comes with soft metal casings rumored to wear chamber out faster (not sure how true this is). Don't use old ammo, I hear it's sometimes bad.

.45 ACP vs. 9mm Luger

.45 ACP is powerful, accurate, effective man stopper.
More expensive than 9mm.
Less magazine capacity than 9mm, but newer guns with double stacked magazines are eliminating this issue.
Fun to shoot, but a bit snappy.

9mm is lighter, faster rate of fire.
Medium powered man stopper, but improvable with good ammo.
Cheaper to shoot, fun to shoot, very little recoil.
High capacity magazines in medium-sized pistols.
Can usually find smaller pistol in 9mm than in .45 ACP.

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Discussion Starter · #18 · Feb 24, 2007

TexicanKid said:
AR-15 vs. AK-47

AR-15 more accurate but is known to jam frequently. Maybe newer guns alleviate this somewhat; still I do not trust the design other than at the range.
More modularized (i.e., can take special attachments).
Cheap .223 round with brass casings.
Round can do extreme mortal damage within certain ranges (20 yds to 100 yds?), is of questionable power, otherwise.
A little more effort to disassemble and reassemle.

AK-47 far more reliable.
Easier to disassemble and reassemble.
7.62 x 39mm is powerful mid-range round.
Not nearly as accurate as AR-15, but good enough to print a pattern on political campaign posters, should you use those at the range.
More fun to shoot (in my opinion. Loud, poweful, fast rate of semi-auto fire).
Ammo is cheap, but the Russian stuff comes with soft metal casings rumored to wear chamber out faster (not sure how true this is). Don't use old ammo, I hear it's sometimes bad.

.45 ACP vs. 9mm Luger

.45 ACP is powerful, accurate, effective man stopper.
More expensive than 9mm.
Less magazine capacity than 9mm, but newer guns with double stacked magazines are eliminating this issue.
Fun to shoot, but a bit snappy.

9mm is lighter, faster rate of fire.
Medium powered man stopper, but improvable with good ammo.
Cheaper to shoot, fun to shoot, very little recoil.
High capacity magazines in medium-sized pistols.
Can usually find smaller pistol in 9mm than in .45 ACP.

Soft metal cases aren't as hard as brass.....throat erosion is usually an american rifle issue, not ComBloc......99% of all former ComBloc issue ammo is steel cased, and has been for 100 years in Russia.....

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Discussion Starter · #19 · Feb 24, 2007

einheit 13 said:
Ak 74 to an AR. Can be just as accurate, will eat anything.
9mm to 45acp. More rounds per mag, been around longer, well proven round through 2 world wars and still going strong. 45, well proven round through one world war and numerous conflicts. big, heavy, and slow. I just like the 9mm better.....

I'm really surprised to see you drop the ball on this one buddy.

The 45ACP was invented in 1905 (a mere 3 years after the 9mm) and the 1911 pistol served in both world wars.

Nothing wrong with the 9mm (I have several), but just had to set you straight on that one. :mrgreen:

I do prefer the 45ACP myself, but with modern hollowpoint ammo the 9mm is nearly as good. LOL! Of course for the military (limited to fmj ammo) the bigger the hole the better. That's why practically every special operator in any branch carries a 45.
.

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Discussion Starter · #20 · Feb 24, 2007

AKM said:
I'm really surprised to see you drop the ball on this one buddy.

The 45ACP was invented in 1905 (a mere 3 years after the 9mm) and the 1911 pistol served in both world wars.

Nothing wrong with the 9mm (I have several), but just had to set you straight on that one. :mrgreen:

I do prefer the 45ACP myself, but with modern hollowpoint ammo the 9mm is nearly as good. LOL! Of course for the military (limited to fmj ammo) the bigger the hole the better. That's why practically every special operator in any branch carries a 45.
.

Didn't drop anything.....the .45 was used along with a revolver by US troops in WW1, and US involvement in WW1 was minimal. The 9mm was used in 14 issue weapons before the 45acp came about. The first 9mm Parabellum was put into a handgun made by Steyr in 1901. Top loaded on a stripper clip like thier 9x21 which came out later.

Remeber, most people relate the luger pistole parabellum to the both the pistol and the round. Which would place its birth at 1904. The 45acp first had life at this very time in a Luger-Browning weapon based on the French (or Swiss) parabellum handgun which modifications and some redesigning became the 1905 Luger or also known as the P08....

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