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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i have my XD and a shotgun, 12G mossy with "evil" pistol grip and barrel shroud-oh no..., and now i need an AR. im gonna have a couple grand finally so that i can get one already put together.

whats the normal range difference between an M-4 type setup or one with a longer barrel for longer shots?

i have seen the "level" theory and do want to go with the best i can afford!

SO, i need help.

i cant find a colt, so whats the next best?

gonna go 5.56 this time and before the end of the year hopefully something in a 6.8 or 6.5. but for the sake of being able to cannabalize one rifle to go from 2 nice paper weights to one rifle that goes bang!

im in the Pheonix area so i am worried a bit about the dust and gunk fouling the weapon. i have heard this has been , fdor the most part fixed- another reason i would like mil-spec.

im hopeless... im going to get something really soon so just a few ideas of who makes the best gun/gear/guts. im looking in the $1 Grand to $3 grand. that includes either eotech or ACOG and a front light with vertical grip package from surefire and maybe, ok most likely, a visable laser or dazzler.

i want to have a great rifle and then great "crap" to go on it. help a newbie out!!! please, im going to purchase soon and dont want to get hoodwinked at the gun club!
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
buy a colt online and have it shipped if you have your heart set on mil-spec. or lmt...i have a bushy, and it goes bang rather accurately for my needs.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
my heart is only set for a high quality weapon. i dont know about reliability, thats where my concern is. if i go out and buy an AR and it has problems im gonna hear about it forever from the wife, she doesnt understand the connection between men and guns, i say ok and get my weapon. i dont want it crapping out, thats all. if its KNOWN to be reliable i'll take it.

if theres anyone in phoenix that wouldn't mind letting me test out on thier weapon, it would be very appreciated. i shoot at Scottsdale gun club and have plenty of free range passes, si if you dont have a membership dont worry.

also i get a free machine gun rental for my birthday, yesterday, and am going to try to get some help then, but they ARE a retail shop and we all know how that goes. they are mostly LEO/MIL and many have been or are going or going back to iraq/afganistan so i trust them as far as knowing thier stuff. rifles still have to be sold, so...
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Some people insist on everything being Mil-Spec, but some of those specs don't matter much in a semi-auto, like barrel steel for example. Bushmaster, Colt, LMT, Sabre Defence, and a few others use Mil-Spec 4150 steel. Plenty of top notch AR companies use 4140, like RRA and Armalite. In semi-auto, it won't make much of a difference at all. Also, with the AR platform, some people are gear whores and they like the "flavor of the month" accessories. Personally, I don't really subscribe to all that. I know good gear and accessories from the bad stuff, and if I have something that's solid, I don't worry about having to upgrade to the new monthly favorite of the online forums.

It sounds like you want to put a bunch of crap on your rifle, and if that suits your needs and will make you happy, I say buy something ready to roll, like the S&W M&P15T or one of the Bushmaster modular carbines. You'll get a rilfe that is ready to accessorize without having to shop around for a forend rail system. On the other hand if you're already part of the gear whore crowd, you may want to consider having something built to your exact specs. I'm a big RRA fan, and they can build a fine rifle to your exact specs, within reason of course.

Larry Vickers recently wrote a good article about ARs and what is funtional vs. what simply looks cool. A lot of people shell out a lot of money for doo-dads just b/c they look cool. I say take your time and think out what you want, and go from there. This is where you'll really need to think realistically about what you are buying the rifle for: paper punching only, or will it be a rifle you'll grab one day to trust your life to? The beauty of the AR is that you can experiment with different accessories and upgrade as needed, when needed.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
im not a gear whore, im handicap. everything i listed is an idea im hoping will help me to use the weapon more efficiently, except the possible laser deal. but thats one thing i do just like to have and its helped while shooting my XD to see where im aiming and where the bullet is ending up when it get to the target. i use my X2L every single night. sun goes down, it goes on.

i would honestly like to know what i had listed that was "crap"? seriously, because i dont want "crap" on any weapon i own i want tools, and yes i want my rifle to be there when my or my families lifes are in the balance. i hope that day never comes. yes it will be for punching paper holes as well, reason for going 5.56 instead of 6.5 or higher. i sure as heck am not trying to take on the police or any other group like that. i figure if i need the 6.5 its to put someone down that is wearing some type of vest. if they have a vest they are likely a good guy, i dont live in iraq.


i dont have the $$ to get the "flavor of the month", thats why i havent chosen optics. my two cousins in iraq use different optics, one an aimpoint and one an eotech, so thats no help, though they say they would get the eotech in my position but they also have been in combat for 6-10 mnths so they are thinking that way, not the "civilian" way. i know i want iron sights, besides i'll figure out.

does the rate of twist have that much difference?

5.56 vs .223 ?

and what are some "basics" like barrel thickness or chrome lining? difference in grip? length and accuracy and any issues with forend grips or anything like that. flash supresors?

thanks for the help
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I think you need to ask yourself one basic question.
What do I want to do with this future rifle. Until you can answer this, there are a lot of items that cannot be properly addressed.

Rifle twist is a big one.
Do you want to shoot paper at 100 yards with cheap ammo, or do you want to hunt coyotes at 300+ yards with the best load you can feed your rifle?

The 6.8 thing is a quick change of upper receivers, but again what do you want to do with it. The laser thing you mentioned makes me think you want a rambo style, take no prisoners, show it off to your friends type of rifle and that is cool if thats what you want, but it won't be worth a darn if you want to go hunting.
All that stuff hanging around is excess weight.;)

So, what do you want to do with it first, then lets talk about what will get you there.

FYI
I just ordered/purchased a Bushmaster Predator and am awaiting delivery. First order of business, barrel break-in, then a paint job. I'll be looking for those 4 legged things out in the desert.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
the following comes with a disclaimer: it has been established in the past that i might or might not be an "internet commando." some of this information may or may not be correct. someone else who may or may not know what they are talking about, please correct me if i'm wrong...

ouija said:
yes it will be for punching paper holes as well, reason for going 5.56 instead of 6.5 or higher. i sure as heck am not trying to take on the police or any other group like that. i figure if i need the 6.5 its to put someone down that is wearing some type of vest. if they have a vest they are likely a good guy, i dont live in iraq.
i have a bolt action rifle for the big stuff...6.8, 6.5, etc. would be cool as a second or third ar, but not on trusty old black betty. i want to have a rifle for which ammo is likely to be plentiful in a shtf situation...imho...

ouija said:
i dont have the $$ to get the "flavor of the month", thats why i havent chosen optics. my two cousins in iraq use different optics, one an aimpoint and one an eotech, so thats no help, though they say they would get the eotech in my position but they also have been in combat for 6-10 mnths so they are thinking that way, not the "civilian" way. i know i want iron sights, besides i'll figure out.
optics are highly over-rated unless you're going for distance or doing some sort of speed-competition, imho. i have an eotech, and it's really very fun, but i almost enjoy using the iron sights more. more challenge and all that...that said, given shtf, i'll be glad i have such an optic. look through an aimpoint and an eo, and decide for yourself which one you like. i got the eo because i didn't like looking through the "tube" of the aimpoint...also, you could put off the purchase of an optic and just get good with the iron sights...then, once you do get the optic, it will be that much easier for you to shoot!

ouija said:
does the rate of twist have that much difference?
yes. 1:12 twist will not spin up a heavy bullet fast enough to allow for stable flight, killing accuracy over 100 yrds. conversly(sp?) i vaguely remember reading that to much of a twist can cause lighter bullets to "spin apart." mil-spec is 1:7 (colt, lmt), but the generally accepted "most versatile" twist rate is 1:9 (bushy, rra, stag, etc.).

ouija said:
5.56 vs .223 ?
5.56. you can shoot .223 out of a 5.56, but you shouldn't shoot 5.56 out of a .223-chambered rifle.

ouija said:
and what are some "basics" like barrel thickness or chrome lining? difference in grip? length and accuracy and any issues with forend grips or anything like that. flash supresors?
this stuff is up to you. i think a chrome lined barrel and chamber are a must, but stainless steel barrels are supposedly more accurate. my bcg is not chromed, but sometimes i wish it was...make sure the gas key is properly staked (not so much of a problem on the higher-end rifles, but still have a look). barrel profile is a matter of preference...like, are you really going to mount a grenade launcher on the rifle? or would you rather have a lighter rifle to hump around while coyote hunting? there are so many accessories out there, that you really have to take some time and think about what you want out of the rifle...in general, i'd say start with something basic (flat-top m4gery with buis or removable carry handle) and lots of ammo/mags. then, when you get some extra coin, buy the toys you've (hopefully) been researching.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ouija,

I didn't mean to come off like an arrogant "know-it-all" of the AR.Far from it. In fact, I consider myself a student of the gun, and I'll never be a true master. I used the term "crap" affectionately. Some people feel that they must have a flashlight with a pressure switch that then connects to a forward, rail-mounted grip, in addition to a bi-pod, a several hundred dollar infra-red illuminator, a laser sight, a picatinny attched sling swivel, etc. I have found that these features all have their place on certain firearms, but they are often overdone. For example, I use a flashlight on my home defesne shotgun, yet my Springfield M1A is scoped with a bipod, and my AR better be clean and light. For me that means standard handguards, a back-up iron sight, a sling, and an Aimpoint sight. I don't want to make my AR a "do everything rifle," as I believe no rifle created by man can fill all of those roles. I'm not chasing down tangos in the middle of the night or being deployed against enemies for several weeks, so my setup works for my realistic needs. Many folks fall short of that realization.

I prefer my setup b/c I am not going to grab my AR when someone kicks in my door. I live in a stucco walled apartment. I'll use the shotgun with a light for that. If I need a scope & bipod (placed, precise weapon at long range) I'll use my M1A. I feel that if I were to set up my AR to try and fill all those roles, I would wind up with a 12lb AR15 that tries to do everything, and in doing so, does NOTHING really well. I designed my AR to be my ideal rifle for those special "social engagements" when I can only depend on myself (and my best friend next to me). Yeah, we can call it SHTF, hurricanes, martial law, etc. Luckily, the AR is a ton of fun to shoot and is a great platform for target shooting (where it does most of its duty).

The 5.56 ammo will do its job at 100-150 yards out of a carbine, with all the variables maximized to their potential. After that, unless you have a specialized rifle/ammo combo, the round isn't tumbling and taking it's maximum toll on the target. I like an M4 barrel b/c it saves some weight vesus an HBAR (Heavy Barell). If you'll trust your life to this weapon, you'll need to know all of the ins and outs of the rifle. That's much easier when you don't have to deal with the quirks of 8 different accessories. It't the KISS principle,Keep It Super Simple.

By "flavor of the month" I was referring to the practices of those people that would call my Aimpoint Quick Release Picatiiny (QRP) mount garbage because it is technology from 6 years (+) ago. They disregard the facts that equipment like this is still in use by the military without any problems. Those guys frown at anything but the latest toy, yet I laugh as they constantly throw money away fixing things that aren't broken. If you've been shooting long enough, you've seen the "gear queers" at the range with the most expensive & newest toys that don't shoot worth their salt.

Again, I didn't mean my original reply to come off as asshatery. I replied thinking that you already had a good idea of what you felt you needed in the rifle. My apologies.

B9
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
boricua9mm said:
Ouija,

Again, I didn't mean my original reply to come off as asshatery. I replied thinking that you already had a good idea of what you felt you needed in the rifle. My apologies.

B9
no problem, i was a little edgy as well.

anyhow i want something that is a good rifle. i do want to ba able to do some hunting though if i went there a lot i would evetually go .308. i want something that is going to be a great mid range 1-200 m and not heavy as hell. i think i know what i need, basically. some package deal with rails, flat top(always add the handle later right?) with optics. stil iron sights for fun and as a back-up. i want kinda an XD ttype AR. by that i mean the one that easy to maintain, just that not cleaning between EVERY shoot, and learn quick and bring up to excellent durability. could go out and get a $1500 1911, and thats not bad, but the XD is gonna work and theres less to break. the reason for the Mossy 500 is that it'll eat almost any shell in 12 G and its easy to maintain and it'll take a beating. thats what i expect of the rifle! a basic SHTF rifle that can keep people at a comfy distance if neccasarry. im not gonna lie, i like the things that look "tactical", but i would rather buy the things that are reliable. my biggest obstacle is making a decesion before my wife gets her hand s on the $$$, HA! yeah right!:?

anymore opinions are definitively still wanted!

thanks again.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
has anyone heard of the MGI system? supposed to be modular to change between rounds easy. i think you just change the mag reciever and barrel. looking into it. any ideas? stay away or check it out?

http://www.mgimilitary.com/

thats the site, just for kicks. let me know what you thinkl.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
been seeing good write-ups @ ar15.com.... but the pricw can go up astronomically.
Some good advice in the previous thread.
Keep it simple and focused. Too much gear takes away from the balance of the rifle.
Good luck on your search.
Cheers,
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
ouija said:
does the rate of twist have that much difference?

5.56 vs .223 ?

and what are some "basics" like barrel thickness or chrome lining? difference in grip? length and accuracy and any issues with forend grips or anything like that. flash supresors?
thanks for the help
alot of that crap really doesn't matter...its mostly preference/if u like it, then buy it

twist rate all depends on how heavy ammo ur gonna shoot or basically how much ur willing to spend on rounds

if u go free float on a carbine, good for u...u can run a bipod with piece of mind(but a bipod on a carbine?) as with grips and furniture its all up to u

i heard that the phantom is a great FS, but i wouldn't know never tried one because i'm happy with my A2 FS
 
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