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Black Rifle Question

1429 Views 19 Replies 0 Participants Last post by  nikon777, 
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OK can’t decide if I want to "build" or buy a complete AR ? I know that if I buy a complete rifle I will come out cheaper but then I will need to customize later down the road this will be a long term project so I'm not worried about that issue. Or can building a complete weapon been done legally? :confused:
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yes it can

the only part that has to get passed thought a FFL is the lower receiver and you can get a complete lower or build it your self the lower case is the only part that must be handled by a FFL
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oklawall said:
yes it can

the only part that has to get passed thought a FFL is the lower receiver and you can get a complete lower or build it your self the lower case is the only part that must be handled by a FFL
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OK are we talk'n bout the $200 tax as if I was trying to buy a suppressor ? if not how much are we talk'n about ? this could add real quick !!!
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I guess for me its just another way to remember the good ol days... ret. Army
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Hoosier70 said:
OK can’t decide if I want to "build" or buy a complete AR ? I know that if I buy a complete rifle I will come out cheaper but then I will need to customize later down the road this will be a long term project so I'm not worried about that issue. Or can building a complete weapon been done legally? :confused:
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it depends on what you want in on your rife. But most of the time you will save money by buying the lower then pick out a upper and put them together. The lower receiver is the only thing you need to go through a FFL (it has the serial # and that is what is considered a firearm) You can buy a fully assembled lower with your pick of stock/trigger/grip and other goodies and have it shipped to your FFL.

The uppers can ship right to your house with out any restrictions, (the only thing you have to worry about is the 16" minimum barrel length - you can go 14.5" with a permanently attached flash suppressor to make it 16") If you want to go shorter you need the $200 stamp.

Buying the parts individually and putting it together your self is completely legal as long as your local laws say it is.
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Hoosier70 said:
OK are we talk'n bout the $200 tax as if I was trying to buy a suppressor ? if not how much are we talk'n about ? this could add real quick !!!
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Nope....no $200, usually from $10-40. Suppressors are very different, they require paperwork and alot more money and need to be registered with the BATF. There are many dealers with an FFL (Federal Firearms License) and they are simple a legal way of transfering a firearm from one company/individual to another. In regards to the AR....the lower receiver IS the gun (this part needs to be transfered to you through an FFL) everything else can be sent directly to you. Hope this helps.
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So far this all helps... still undecided thx for the help
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Hoosier70 said:
So far this all helps... still undecided thx for the help
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I guess I'm confused as to where the surpressor talk came into play, as you didn't mention it in your first post.

When it comes down to it, you buy a lower, either "stripped" or fully assembled already from an FFL dealer, mainly because that is the part with the serial number.

The rest is up to you. Barrell length has to be so long or you have to pay for a certain tax stamp that clarifies it as a Short Barreled Rifle. As long as the barrel length is in line with ATF regulations, there are THOUSANDS of possibilites on what you can do to an AR.

As to the surpressor issue, it is a one time tax stamp of $200 for the surpressor. Then you have to actually buy the surpressor.

Hope this helps some.

Matt
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one thing you must remember... is there is a strong chance that the rifle you build or buy today... won't be the rifle you have in the future. Most likely you will always find something different you want on the rifle. Maybe you want different handguards.. maybe you want a different barrel, maybe a different grip or stock.

If this is your first rifle.. I say stick with buying one new.. don't build. Start out simple... then build upon that later.
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mattjohnston87 said:
I guess I'm confused as to where the surpressor talk came into play, as you didn't mention it in your first post.

When it comes down to it, you buy a lower, either "stripped" or fully assembled already from an FFL dealer, mainly because that is the part with the serial number.

The rest is up to you. Barrell length has to be so long or you have to pay for a certain tax stamp that clarifies it as a Short Barreled Rifle. As long as the barrel length is in line with ATF regulations, there are THOUSANDS of possibilites on what you can do to an AR.

As to the surpressor issue, it is a one time tax stamp of $200 for the surpressor. Then you have to actually buy the surpressor.

Hope this helps some.

Matt
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It was in my second post, I wasnt sure what the tax would be I've seen where that stamp cost $200 & was'nt sure if was all for the same thing
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XD Springer said:
I don't get the "black rifle" thing . . .

I've owned two of them, and a Rem. 700 PSS "sniper" in .223 Ackley Imp. Sorry, I just don't care for the caliber, which is why they're all sold.

That said . . . I'm a big fan of Bushmaster. Seems like they had the govt. contract for the Dept. of Defense. You can get the stock config you want, heavy barrel, floated fore-end. Flat top sight rail and all the rest, off the rack from Bushmaster. Then you add a custom two stage trigger, and you're set to go.

I much prefer the AK-47, but then I'm not doing any "fine detail work" with it. What I'm getting is a small, light carbine with huge ammo capacity, and a potent ammo -- 7.62 X 39mm is more potent at the "carbine" range -- 300 yds or less. Larger diameter bullet, and twice the bullet weight of the AR-15.



These days, for the "reach out and touch" stuff . . . I'm doing a Weatherby Vanguard, 30-06, Leupold VXII, 3 - 9x 40 mm scope, duplex reticle. I found in a pawn shop for $350 out the door.



I just don't get the "black rifle" thing.
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For the record Bushmaster has never had a DOD contract. Only Colt, LMT and FN sell M4's M16 to the military.

As for the Black Rifle thing. The AR15 is like the 1911 it dominates in its field. Its the choice of more professionals world wide than any other weapon system. Notice I said professionals not terrorist or peasant conscripts. That group chose the AK due to its low cost.

To the original poster. I recommend Colt or LMT. But if you want to build Stag is a good place to get parts.

Pat
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XD Springer said:
I don't get the "black rifle" thing . . .
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The way I see it, the AR15 is the Harley Davidson of the gun world. There are a gazillion different ways to make your weapon your own. And, they are certainly fun.

And why get an EBR when you can accomplish the same thing with a more basic autoloading rifle? Same as why get a Harley when you can get a Yamaha that looks the same? Because the EBR, like the Harley, is the real deal.

For Hoosier, if you're ret. Army and have handled the weapon before, but aren't to keen on a ground-up stripped receiver build, look into ordering a completely built lower with a stock that you'd like. Once that is on it's way, start pondering what you'd like in an upper. Uppers can be ordered is so many different configurations that the odds are you can find something that will suit you for a while without any major mods. Just my $ .02.
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Pretty soon, I too am going to do the AR thang.

I have decided that building is not too daunting, since I am pretty mechanical and do almost everything on my old Volvos myself. How hard can it be?

What I am going to do is order a stripped Stag lower from AIM for 95 bucks, then get a lower parts kit and buttstock and shop around for a good complete upper. I am probably going with a collapsable buttstock but a 20" A2 styled upper flattop (probably Stag or Rock River) with iron sights. I plan on using iron sights most of the time (it will be carried on an ATV and see hard use..no scope) but I want the option of being able to add optics later if I wish. I also want the longer barrel for accuracy and up front weight, since this is to be an open carry ranch rifle and not a CQB rifle.

I have done the math and yes, its cheaper to build than buy a complete rifle. Also, I have found that many complete rifles are either too expensive or had features that I would immediately want to swap out. Why blow 850-1000 bucks on a complete Bushy, DPMS, Stag or Rock River AR, then turn around and spend hundreds more, swapping out stocks, grips and other items that you don't want?

I figure I can buy it a little at a time, get better quality parts and get it exactly like I want, instead of taking what the makers think I want for more money.

I hope the AR is NOT the Harley of the rifle world. Harleys are expensive, shiny and loud and not as reliable as a Honda or Yamaha (Honda rider...here!). I want relaibility and low maintenance...not a shiny "look at me" rifle.

- Brickboy240
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Hoosier70 said:
OK are we talk'n bout the $200 tax as if I was trying to buy a suppressor ? if not how much are we talk'n about ? this could add real quick !!!
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No $200.00 tax here. The lower receiver is the only thing that you have to get from a gun store or FFL if you order it and have it shipped to a local FFL around here that will run you $10.00-$75.00 + the cost of the receiver. The receiver run around $100.00 if it is stripped and around $200.00 if you get it with the guts. Then the upper and barrel will run you around $400.-$500 its all in what you want and how much you can do.

With being new to the AR I would say that you should get a complete upper. Getting the head spacing set right can be a paint in the a$$
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My Stag receiver from Del-Ton is on its way. It should be here tomorrow!!

Let the building begin. Come on Brick, get to it.:grin:
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Its probably going to be next month before I can start. I need to get some repairs done to my ATV and the wife's Volvo needs a brakejob (83k miles and we're finally having to do some maintenance on it...gotta love Swedish engineering).

I have it pretty much mapped out, though. 100 bucks will get me the Stag lower. Another 70 bucks will get me a Bushy lower parts kit. Another 75-100 bucks gets me a 6 postition buttstock and around 450-500 will get me a Stag or Rock River complete A2 upper.

I am figuring that around 650-750 bucks total and I'll have exactly what I want completely done. Not too bad, eh?

I know that Stag and Rock River use chrome lined barrels...thats a good thing. There ARE cheaper uppers, but the point of buying/building a little at a time is to get quality in there somewhere. I am leaning towards Stag for an upper, so the whole rifle is mostly Stag stuff.

I have also toyed with getting an upper in 7.62x39mm caliber. Why? Well, when you own four SKSs and a Mak-90 and cases of 7.62x39 ammo...why add another caliber? I have a 22-250 for varminting, so another 22 caliber centerfire is just more calibers. The 7.62x39 is not conventional...but for a SKS shooter like me...it might make sense!

All this will start sometime in May, though. I have waited this long to get into the AR thingy...I can wait a little longer.

- brickboy240
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I'm thinking of the 7.62 upper as well. Like you said, why throw another caliber into the mix. Plus, my SKS will have a rifle buddy now.
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The only downside I am seeing to the 7.62x39 AR is that magazines are harder to come by and expensive. Also, its mostly Colt uppers and you know how high anything with "Colt' stamped on it gets in the AR world!

I might just suck it up and do the 223/5.56 like everyone else. Its probably the easiest route. Still with my ultra custom Mauser varminter in 22-250 (that I spent a TON of money building)...I don't have a use for the 223 caliber, really.

An AR in 45ACP might be alot of fun, too. I notice that there are lots of options for ARs in 45 and 9mm.

Research...research...research...on and on it goes!

- Brickboy240
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XDinNC said:
I'm thinking of the 7.62 upper as well. Like you said, why throw another caliber into the mix. Plus, my SKS will have a rifle buddy now.
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The 7.62 is a bad choice in an AR unless you get an expensive lower reciever that takes AK mags. I would try the 6.8 if you want to be different. As for 45 acp builds they are harder to get mags for.
Pat
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Hoosier70 said:
OK can’t decide if I want to "build" or buy a complete AR ? I know that if I buy a complete rifle I will come out cheaper but then I will need to customize later down the road this will be a long term project so I'm not worried about that issue. Or can building a complete weapon been done legally? :confused:
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Building is more fun, can be cheaper by a tad, allows you to better understand the wa he weapon works, and you can build it how u want from the start.

Heres one I built, im about to start work on number 2.
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