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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I'm inquiring about a Bushmaster at the shop today and the guy said hes going to be getting some Stag ARs in. They are currently being modified to be legal in NJ, but he said they will be $100-$200 cheaper and better quality. Any truth to this?
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I don't know that I would say a Stag is better quality, but they build a good rifle. Especially if you're a lefty.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Lazarus said:
So I'm inquiring about a Bushmaster at the shop today and the guy said hes going to be getting some Stag ARs in. They are currently being modified to be legal in NJ, but he said they will be $100-$200 cheaper and better quality. Any truth to this?
what makes them illegal in NJ?
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
jnclement said:
I don't know that I would say a Stag is better quality, but they build a good rifle. Especially if you're a lefty.
I shoot both left and right handed and have no problem at all with either side. IMO I would not sacrifice the universal parts for a left side ejection port.

Bushmaster uses a better steel in there barrel, they also mag partical check there barrels. I personally would buy the stag , that is if I could no get a COLT, FN, CMMG, LMT.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
nikon777 said:
what makes them illegal in NJ?
Have to make 10 round mags for sure. The guy mentioned something about changing the stock too but I dont know of a restriction on stocks in NJ.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
nikon777 said:
Stag and RRA are made by the same people.
wrong

Continental machine and tool (stag's parent company) at ONE point was the manufacturer of the LOWER receivers for RRA....whether they still are or not, im not sure.



as for stag being better than bushmaster.....

stag wins for their small parts. Stag produces what is generally considered one of the best AR parts kits on the market.

receivers, more or less a draw. both stag and bushmaster have nicely finished and fitted receivers.

barrels, bushmaster wins. 4150 steel over stags 4141 steel. does this translate into a "real world" difference. Id say, most likely not.

so, all in all.....if it were my money (and it has been several times) id go with stag (and i have.....several times).
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
ARin said:
wrong

Continental machine and tool (stag's parent company) at ONE point was the manufacturer of the LOWER receivers for RRA....whether they still are or not, im not sure.
if your not sure, then why am i wrong? and your right, i did mean the LOWERS.


ARin said:
Stag produces what is generally considered one of the best AR parts kits on the market.
so does RRA
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The son of the owner of CMT started STAG Arms with his fathers help. CMT makes unmachined uppers and lowers for a lot of companies, who basically take the rough shape and mill the AR out of it.

Interestingly enough, Stag does make the AR for Smith & Wesson. A very fine piece for the price. I would say, in my humble opinion, that from wost to best, I would rate them like this:
Olympic Arms
Bushmaster
RRA
Stag/Smith & Wesson
Colt

Just because Bushmaster rated low though doesn't mean by any means they are a bad gun. I wouldn't mind owning one!
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I was directed to this some time back from another board member, this IMO is the best factual what AR is better myth buster. I personally have done as the author suggested several times and have had noting but great success, I have built well over 40 AR15s and currently own 10 all of them are on lowers by Double Star, Sun Devil, RRA, DPMS, or Stag With that said I don't own an upper by any of the above companies
There seems to be a large number of threads from patriots that are seeking to purchase/build an AR type rifle in some configuration. This post will provide most of the answers to those frequently asked questions.

No doubt this post will be somewhat controversial – as I will invariably step on toes in this process – and for that I apologize up front – but also note that I will not compromise my personal integrity by “holding back” on the truth.

Obviously this post will be focused on “tools” that one could trust one’s life too – this post will not cover AR’s that could be used as “toys” (fun guns for plinking/hunting/target shooting/etc.)

We will start with the characteristics of what it is we are looking for in an AR tool – then we will discuss the manufacturers that are making what we want – followed by those that are making close to what we want. If the manufacturer is not listed in this post – I will not trust my life to it – PERIOD. ALL other manufacturers – make “toys”.

The three MOST important parts of the AR are the barrel, bolt and bolt carrier. Consider this – the chamber pressure in an AR when it fires is 50,000 PSI – that is TWENTY FIVE TONS of pressure per square inch - and this is near your face! We only want the highest quality parts to contain those high pressure explosions that occur every time we touch off a round.

OK – the barrel assy. We want:

1. Barrel made from 4150 steel
2. Chrome lined chamber and bore
3. 5.56mm chamber
4. Manganese Phosphate coating under the front sight base
5. Forged front sight assy
6. MagParticle inspected
7. 1x7” twist

The Bolt:

1. Buy the bolt from one of the Tier Three or above manufacturers listed below.

The Bolt Carrier:

1. MagParticle inspected
2. Covered Firing Pin
3. Solid “rear”
4. Properly staked gas key
5. Chrome lined “cylinder” (where the gas rings on the bolt interface with the bolt carrier)

Upper receiver:

1. Forged 7075 T6 construction (not cast)
2. Mil-Spec “true” M1913 rails (if flat top)
3. Mil-Spec anodizing AFTER M4 ramps are cut
4. Mil-Spec small parts (forward assist, ejection port cover, etc.)

Lower receiver:

1. Forged 7075 T6 construction
2. Mil-Spec internals (no “target” or “match grade” parts)


Now let’s look at manufacturers. There are only TWO manufacturers that are independently checked/tested to ensure they build “mil-spec” M series longarms (M16A2 and M4). These two manufacturers are Colt and FN. The US government inspectors ensure they build rifles to the spec.

There are other manufacturers that build to the “mil-spec” – but they do so willfully – and are not independently inspected to the spec. Some manufacturers build to the exact spec – some build to portions of the spec – some don’t build to the spec at all.

The first category is what we will call TIER ONE manufacturers and are the ONLY two that build to the spec and are independently verified. They are:

1. COLT (only the military/LE rifles – the civy “Target” models are not built to the spec)
2. FN

Then next category is “Tier Two” - those manufactures that build to the exact spec – but aren’t verified by US gov inspectors:

1. LMT (Lewis Machine and Tool)
2. BMC (Bravo Machine Company)

Tier Three are companies that build to the spec – but don’t shoot a “proof” round through each barrel before it is MagParticle inspected – they MagPart inspect a percentage of barrels from each lot.

1. CMMG

Tier Four companies build close to the spec – but don’t have 1x7” barrel twist – don’t shoot a proof load through each barrel (they – like CMMG above – inspect a percentage of barrels from each lot) and don’t Manganese Phosphate coat the barrel under the front sight base:

1. Bushmaster

These other manufacturers use sub-standard barrel material (4140) – chambers that may or may not be 5.56 – in short – they are rifles that are build under the standard. Having said that – these “Tier Five” companies do build some quality rifles – just understand – that according the “Spec” – which is how we must judge AR’s – these are further “sub-par” than any of the Tier Four and up. The following companies are not listed in any particular order:

1. Armalite
2. Stag Arms
3. Smith and Wesson (Stag)
4. CMT (which makes Stag and S&W)
5. Rock River Arms (RRA)
6. DPMS

Then there is the Tier Six companies – which I wouldn’t recommend to anyone. The Tier Six companies are any AR manufacturer that is not listed above. Note that many “parts house’s” use AR parts made by one of the above manufacturers – but they also buy parts made from “who knows??” – and is not something I would willingly put my life on the line with…..would you??

So – armed with the above information – I would suggest the following. Buy the assembled upper from any of the Tier Three and up manufacturers.

Buy ANY stripped lower receiver made by any Tier 5 and above manufacturers.

Get all lower receiver parts (actually all small parts) from any Tier 5 and above manufacturer.

Buy bolts/bolt carriers/barrels from any Tier Three and above manufacturer.

If you prefer to go down to your local gun store and just buy a rifle – the only real choice to buy a rifle closest to the “Spec” is our only Tier Four manufacturer – which is Bushmaster.

RRA, Armalite, Stag, et al – all build quality rifles – but they aren’t built even close to the same standard that the Tier Three (and arguably Tier Four) and above companies do.

Hope this helps,

cheers

tire iron
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
beaterar said:
I was directed to this some time back from another board member, this IMO is the best factual what AR is better myth buster. I personally have done as the author suggested several times and have had noting but great success, I have built well over 40 AR15s and currently own 10 all of them are on lowers by Double Star, Sun Devil, RRA, DPMS, or Stag With that said I don't own an upper by any of the above companies
Yeah, I try not to get too caught up in the tier thing though. Pretty much anything you build from Bushmaster, RRA, or Stag is gonna run like a top. RRA is good enough for the DEA & FBI.


 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ya its his opinion on what he would want his rifle to be, but the information is totally correct and accurate. With that said unless the rifle is CMMG or better then I believe I would buy the cheapest one available. So what I'm saying is that Stag is just as good as RRA and I wouldn't give 5 more dollars for a RRA over a Stag..... It doesn't offer anything more then stag.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
beaterar said:
Ya its his opinion on what he would want his rifle to be, but the information is totally correct and accurate. With that said unless the rifle is CMMG or better then I believe I would buy the cheapest one available. So what I'm saying is that Stag is just as good as RRA and I wouldn't give 5 more dollars for a RRA over a Stag..... It doesn't offer anything more then stag.
Thats what I was thinking. It would seem as they are both very good with just Stag being a little bit better quality but in this case it might be cheaper so I might just go the Stag.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
beaterar said:
I was directed to this some time back from another board member, this IMO is the best factual what AR is better myth buster. I personally have done as the author suggested several times and have had noting but great success, I have built well over 40 AR15s and currently own 10 all of them are on lowers by Double Star, Sun Devil, RRA, DPMS, or Stag With that said I don't own an upper by any of the above companies
LMT barrels arent phosphate coated under the FSB. and they use straight pins instead of tapers to hold on the FSB.

so there goes that whole bull**** quote.

No one but Colt and FN build to "exact specs" because they are the only ones that have the government spec packages.

the teir arguement is retarded.....any time you hear someone start in with teir this, or teir that......run away. because you are about to get a load of **** dumped in your lap.
 
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