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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I shot my first AR on Saturday and fell in love with it so I'm ordering one tomorrow! I'm pretty new to the platform but I spent some time yesterday doing some research and just learning about the rifle in general.

I'm looking into the Stag model 1 but didn't see too much about this company. I know there are TONS of manufactures and parts out there but as a first AR out of the box how does this compare to the others?

I know I want a 16" barrel, flat top with handguard and retractable stock but thats about it.

I'll be ordering it through my local gun smith who is very reputable and knowledgeable and this is what he recommended. He's also going to blue print it, change the foregrip so its a free floating barrel.

Basically I'm looking for a rifle with great quality and accuracy that will last out of the box. I may add optics to it down there road but for now I'll stick with the iron sights.

I'm going to confirm everything tomorrow and hes going to order it then.

Just wanted to see what you guys thought since theres so much knowledge on here about these things.

Thanks.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I looked into getting a Stag upper to match my lower. I had bought my lower from a dealer and built it with a parts kit, so I figured I would match it with an upper from the same company. As it turns out, Stag doesn't offer an upper with a mid-length gas system, and that's what I wanted so it forced me to look elsewhere. If I were building a carbine though, I would definitely look at the Stag offerings based on what I've read. They're made by CMT.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I looked into getting a Stag upper to match my lower. I had bought my lower from a dealer and built it with a parts kit, so I figured I would match it with an upper from the same company. As it turns out, Stag doesn't offer an upper with a mid-length gas system, and that's what I wanted so it forced me to look elsewhere. If I were building a carbine though, I would definitely look at the Stag offerings based on what I've read. They're made by CMT.
What exactly is a mid length gas system? I'm looking for a 16" barrel.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What exactly is a mid length gas system? I'm looking for a 16" barrel.
It's just a matter of what kind of rifle you're building. If you're building a full rifle like the M16 (20" barrel), then you'd have a full-length handguard and your front sight base which houses the gas port would be full length. A carbine like the M4 has a 14.5" barrel, so the gas port and front sight have to be moved further back. This allows you to have a shorter rifle, but the disadvantages are:
  • shorter sight radius
  • increased pressure on the bolt (leads to accelerated wear & tear)
  • snappier bolt cycling
  • louder report
But you also get a slightly increased rate of fire because the action operates a little faster on a carbine. For semi-auto AR-15's this is a moot point, though. They'll shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger.

So generally speaking, a longer gas system is more reliable. Unless you're absolutely desiring a carbine (14.5"-- or shorter), you best not get an upper with a carbine length gas system.

16" is considered a mid-length barrel. They offer 16" uppers with various lengths of gas tubes. You can get one with a short gas tube, but there's no point in a rifle this size. Get a mid-length gas system with a 16" barrel and save yourself the extra wear & tear. It also gives you a little more space for gripping the rifle.

Check this out:

Full-length 20" rifle with full-length gas system (M16):


Carbine 14.5" rifle with carbine-length gas system (M4):


Mid-length 16" rifle with mid-length gas system (Msomewhereinbetween - j/k :p):



The last one (my rifle) is somewhere between the other two in terms of how long the hanguards are and the distance between the front sight and gas port from the receiver.

Of course you can also get very short barrels for an SBR build with all kinds of custom lengths. I'm pretty sure there is a lot you can do to customize an upper, at least in theory.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Stag is pretty good stuff, but you mentioned a few things I don't really understand.

Exactly what is your dealer blueprinting? This makes little sense to me what he'd be doing or why. At least from my viewpoint considering it's a semi auto and not a bolt rifle. Other than maybe just trying to blow some smoke in your general direction. If you wanna see what specs it should be, there is more than enough that you can find and print out on the net, but if you stick with a factory built rifle it should be fine out of the box, so if he's charging extra for the service, you may want to find out exactly what it is he plans to do because it'll likely be unnecessary.

And I will say that freefloating will enhance accuracy (a little under certain circumstances), I'm sure you'll want to add optics eventually. Irons are fine and all, but you'd be surprised how much a little magnification will help nail the bullseye if that's what you're going after.

Good luck.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If you aren't in a super hurry you might want to research a little more and find one you are going to be really happy with, I bought my Bushmaster locally in a bit of a rush and I wasn't too happy with it so I swapped out a few parts which ended up being a little more expensive. I'd recommend Bushmaster to anyone, I've never shot a Stag but I've heard nothing but good things about them my friend has a RRA 16" and it's pretty sweet. I was curious to see if anyone has one of the new Bushmasters with the gas piston -->


instead of the gas tube and how reliable it is, I'm stocking up on parts for a new AR build which will probably be mostly RRA.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Skip all the other crap and just buy a RRA AR15 with accuracy out of the box.
I'm assuming you own a RRA. I own one as well, it's a very nice rifle. However, there are many other brands that are just as accurate "out of the box".....including Stag Arms. To the original poster, shop around and gather information...and then go shoot some of the rifles on your list. Here are 2 great resources with many (and I mean many) different opinions and a wealth of information. AR15.com M4Carbine.net
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Another vote for Pete at AR15sales.com. I got his Stag rifle kit for $633 and couldn't be happier. If I could do it all over again, I'd buy the same kit. ;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Stag makes a good product. My S&W MP15A is essentially a Stag. Just my opinion, but I'd wait a bit before I'd let your dealer put that FF handguard on for you. Since you're new to ARs, you may find that you change your mind about the type and make of handguard you use. Like John A., I'm also a little skeptical of the dealer's "blueprinting". As far as brands go, you might want to look at the Smith & Wesson line and also check out CMMG.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
It's just a matter of what kind of rifle you're building. If you're building a full rifle like the M16 (20" barrel), then you'd have a full-length handguard and your front sight base which houses the gas port would be full length. A carbine like the M4 has a 14.5" barrel, so the gas port and front sight have to be moved further back. This allows you to have a shorter rifle, but the disadvantages are:
  • shorter sight radius
  • increased pressure on the bolt (leads to accelerated wear & tear)
  • snappier bolt cycling
  • louder report
But you also get a slightly increased rate of fire because the action operates a little faster on a carbine. For semi-auto AR-15's this is a moot point, though. They'll shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger.

So generally speaking, a longer gas system is more reliable. Unless you're absolutely desiring a carbine (14.5"-- or shorter), you best not get an upper with a carbine length gas system.

16" is considered a mid-length barrel. They offer 16" uppers with various lengths of gas tubes. You can get one with a short gas tube, but there's no point in a rifle this size. Get a mid-length gas system with a 16" barrel and save yourself the extra wear & tear. It also gives you a little more space for gripping the rifle.

Check this out:

Full-length 20" rifle with full-length gas system (M16):


Carbine 14.5" rifle with carbine-length gas system (M4):


Mid-length 16" rifle with mid-length gas system (Msomewhereinbetween - j/k :p):



The last one (my rifle) is somewhere between the other two in terms of how long the hanguards are and the distance between the front sight and gas port from the receiver.

Of course you can also get very short barrels for an SBR build with all kinds of custom lengths. I'm pretty sure there is a lot you can do to customize an upper, at least in theory.
I knew the mid length was the 16" barrel just didn't know you could get different length gas systems tho.

I know I want the 16" barrel and I'm assuming that'll come with the mid length gas system but I'll double check.

Thanks for the rest of that post, I learned a little more as far as the wear and tear.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Stag is pretty good stuff, but you mentioned a few things I don't really understand.

Exactly what is your dealer blueprinting? This makes little sense to me what he'd be doing or why. At least from my viewpoint considering it's a semi auto and not a bolt rifle. Other than maybe just trying to blow some smoke in your general direction. If you wanna see what specs it should be, there is more than enough that you can find and print out on the net, but if you stick with a factory built rifle it should be fine out of the box, so if he's charging extra for the service, you may want to find out exactly what it is he plans to do because it'll likely be unnecessary.

And I will say that freefloating will enhance accuracy (a little under certain circumstances), I'm sure you'll want to add optics eventually. Irons are fine and all, but you'd be surprised how much a little magnification will help nail the bullseye if that's what you're going after.

Good luck.
The way he explained it, its the way he attaches the barrel to the receiver. He's a reputable gun smith and I've had him work on some other guns so I know he's not blowin smoke, but thanks for looking out.

I'm sure I'll get some optics down the road, but right now I just want the rifle!
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I know I want the 16" barrel and I'm assuming that'll come with the mid length gas system but I'll double check.
That's an issue I ran into. Good thing to check. The Stag 16" barrel is not mid-length. RRA has one, but it's a heavy barrel. Things like that made me shop around until I stumbled upon the CMMG website. Heaven :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
In 16 inch barrels, you can get them in standard length or midlength gas systems.

Though I don't know I can say that a short (standard) gas length is necessarily bad all around either. In some ways of looking at it, I can see how the midlength may have an advantage over the two styles (mainly only with the longer sight radius though) and other points I think the standard car length could be better with a faster impulse spike and keeping the internals clean(er). I'm not bashing them, but just putting that out there as I see it.

In a midlength, I can see how the impulse is retarded initially and would have a slightly longer lock time (which is good for adding a little more velocity. No doubt there), but it's still going to be a longer impulse overall nonetheless and honestly, I can't really see how the middy couldn't deposit even more junk where it eats between the two styles.

The gasses may subsequently be a little cooler when it gets there...MAYBE, but probably not in a meaningful amount. Either way,it's still going to be hot. If that's an advantage, wouldn't a chrome lined gas key be just as beneficial of protecting the key from those forces? (Heat and contaminents)

The Short system is standard in 16 inch barrels and has been in use for a couple of decades now. The midlength is pretty new to the scene in the overall picture and I can see how it may be (maybe a little) easier on the action, but probably not a great improvement in the whole scheme of things.

I'm not saying midlengths are a bad option, but I'm not sure they're that much better either.

Or maybe I'm just looking at it differently. I'm just not sold on the idea that "it's all that". What am I missing?
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I'm just not sold on the idea that "it's all that".
That's an interesting point you brought up about chrome lined gas keys. You might be right, I really don't know much about the gas temperatures (and pressures, since they're related quantities). My disclaimer is that everything I wrote above is what I've been told and/or read from various places online, not from experience or first-hand knowledge. I didn't mean to make the mid-length sound like the end-all solution for 16" barrels.

I'm most certainly not in a position to debate gas system lengths. Just thought I'd share what I picked up along the way with another neophyte. :D You got me interested now...
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'm not disagreeing with you either. In all honesty, I think both gas lengths may have some advantages over the other in certain ways. I just like to analyze things and this seems like a good starting point for discussion since we were on the subject.
 
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