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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been trying to decide for weeks, but i can't. I want an Ar but cant decide if i want the 20inch. BB or if i was the 16inch M4gery.

With the 20ich BB how fast can i fire rounds without it har5ming the barrell? Also how is the acuuracy at 150-200 yards with the BB, with handloaded ammunition or the Black Hills stuff?

Blake.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Compromise and build a 18" SPR. :) But either choices you can't go wrong with. Sub MOA at 100 yards is nothing on a quality M4gery.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well if you can manually fire the semi-auto fast enough to have a real effect on the barrel then I'll just do the right thing and buy it from you :)

There are folks that compete at the national level with 20" AR's, so I'd say you can get to 1k yrds with some care and work on the rifle. I take my 20" Recon wannabe out to about 500 without an issue. I know that the mil had quals at 300m using iron sights and the furthest targets tended to be the easiest for me (it was always that 150m target that got me) and that was with a issue A2. I'd pit any of my current RRA's against that old A2 any day!
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Paralysis by analysis. I can shoot 12" steel targets at 500m with my 16" Bushmaster patrolman all day. OK, I only hit about 50%, but I blame the trigger. Buy an m4, and a 20" upper too. I have a friend with a nice 20" by White Oak, and some who really like the JP. Depends on your wallet.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
How is the 16" barrel for accuracy? Will it reach 500 yards with no problems or a lot less. I'm in a debate with myself over a 16" or 20" barrel at the moment.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
jnclement said:
I can shoot 12" steel targets at 500m with my 16" Bushmaster patrolman all day. OK, I only hit about 50%, but I blame the trigger.
It's probably the ammo not you especially if it's mil-spec like SS109, M193 or M855. Reloading will get you better accuracy any day of the week.

I've got two AR's one 16" the other 20" both serve different purposes. The 16" M4 is my SHFT, HD and small game gun under 200 yards. The 20" is reach out past 200 yards w/ scope. I don't feel under gunned with the 20" if I used it for SHFT or HD. Get a 16" then if you want a longer barrel get a 20". Two guns in one.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
My understanding of the barrel lenght revolves around muzzle velocity, not the accuracty. Most of the accuracy discussions arise from the twist 1:9 vs 1:7 etc...

The length of the barrel has something to do with barrel harmonics that can affect accuracy, but mostly affects muzzle velocity. The longer the barrel, up to like 26" the faster the muzzle velocity, hence flatter trajectory, increased yaw and fragmentation from mil spec bullets.

Seems like 1:9 offers the most versatility of utility using different weight bullets, the 1:7 better for heavier bullets.

I hope that helps, but if you have more questions, contact www.ar15.com

Cheers,
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Stump said:
How is the 16" barrel for accuracy? Will it reach 500 yards with no problems or a lot less. I'm in a debate with myself over a 16" or 20" barrel at the moment.
Well, the steel target goes clank, does that count? Just hold between the 1st and 2nd dot.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Get a Colt 6920 or a LMT. Also 20 inch guns are a waste on a .223/5.56 in my opinion. The .223 is a close quarters round putting a 20 inch barrel on the gun gives you only a slight increase in down range performance at the expense of good handling characteristics in tight spaces. Try doing an entry on a trailer house with a 20 inch gun. Its not fun. 14-16 inch guns are much better all around choices.
Pat
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Here's what I did . CMMG 20" govt profile upper. The govt profile is light under the handguard.
I played around with the HBAR 20" guns. Handled like a big boat anchor.

I saved a bunch of weight by going to a 6oz carbon fiber handguard. I have the best of both worlds. A lightweight 20" barrelled AR that can shoot the heavy bullets if needed.
I sprung for the Laure QD scope mount when I need to reach out there.
Working on a design to add a 3-4" rail to the FF tube. Waiting for parts.

Gratuitous AR nudity



Same gun with Larue Tactical QD mount.


Now since I can't make up my mind, I have one of these laying around and one on order from my gunsmith. I see a 16" midlength K.I.S.S. slickside AR in my future.



ZM
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Alaskapopo said:
Get a Colt 6920 or a LMT. Also 20 inch guns are a waste on a .223/5.56 in my opinion. The .223 is a close quarters round putting a 20 inch barrel on the gun gives you only a slight increase in down range performance at the expense of good handling characteristics in tight spaces. Try doing an entry on a trailer house with a 20 inch gun. Its not fun. 14-16 inch guns are much better all around choices.
Pat
Not everyone is into breaking into homes with a AR. Not everyone is into the tacticool commando type of shooting with their EBR. Did you ever think that people just like to plink and varmint hunt with their ARs? :rolleyes:
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Alaskapopo said:
The .223 is a close quarters round putting a 20 inch barrel on the gun gives you only a slight increase in down range performance at the expense of good handling characteristics in tight spaces.
Pat
I don't gree that the .223 is a "close quarters round." It was based off the .222 Remington, and was originally designed as a varmint round. Performs well at long range, so long as you are shooting an appropriate target.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Kimura said:
I don't gree that the .223 is a "close quarters round." It was based off the .222 Remington, and was originally designed as a varmint round. Performs well at long range, so long as you are shooting an appropriate target.
I tend to think of the .223/5.56 in the roles that it was designed for, a combat round. As a combat round it is a short to medium ranged round. I know the .223 is very accurate at long range. (out to 600 meters in Highpower) But you don't need a 20 inch barrel to tap into that accuracy. If accuracy is all you want barrel length is not an issue. One of the most accurate .223's I ever shot was a TC contender with a 10 inch barrel. It would shoot 1/4 moa.

Pat
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Odin said:
Not everyone is into breaking into homes with a AR. Not everyone is into the tacticool commando type of shooting with their EBR. Did you ever think that people just like to plink and varmint hunt with their ARs? :rolleyes:
Thats fine I am not a hunter so I don't think in those terms. I think in terms of how I use the gun. Buy what you like and be happy.
Pat
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Alaskapopo said:
I tend to think of the .223/5.56 in the roles that it was designed for, a combat round. As a combat round it is a short to medium ranged round. I know the .223 is very accurate at long range. (out to 600 meters in Highpower) But you don't need a 20 inch barrel to tap into that accuracy. If accuracy is all you want barrel length is not an issue. One of the most accurate .223's I ever shot was a TC contender with a 10 inch barrel. It would shoot 1/4 moa.

Pat
I didn't mean to criticise. While it is true that a 16" barrel is as accurate ( I personaly believe it is more accurate, due to greater structural rigidity) as a 20" barrel, that doesn't mean the user is. At longer ranges, that few extra inches of sight radius can make a big difference. It is really a funtion of what the original poster wants to do with his rifle. My AR is a 16" lightweight CAR, because I use it mostly as a walking-around rifle when out scouting and as a last ditch HD weapon for my fiance. A dedicated hunting gun, however, would probably be better off as a 20" or 24", due to the fact that, in a round such as the 5.56, the velocity loss can be substantial depending on the rate of burn of your powder. It is all relative.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ok i think yall think i am talking about a 20" regular barrel, im talking about the .920 bull barrel. This would be made into a tactical rifle.

Blake.
 
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