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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
probably better handled by bushmaster....more likely that they will honor any warrantee if installed by them also.

as for me, my upper is getting shipping to primaryweapons.com (PWS) tomorrow for their piston retrofit.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I've looked at the kits. I find it hard to justify a $400 add on part to convert your rifle to gas-piston operation.

I'd be more likely to shell out the bucks to buy a gas-piston upper w/ bcg.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I find it hard to justify a $400 add on part to convert your rifle to gas-piston operation.
Well stated Krackels. I'm not into gas piston conversions either. They seem to be all the tacticool rage now. Sure it's a little cleaner, but wouldn't you still try and clean your rifle after every shoot anyway? And for $400 you have an extra moving part to further mess with accuracy. No thanks... On the flipside, lots of folks are talkin' wonders about the PWS kit that ARin mentioned...

IMHO, If you were to buy a factory rifle that specifically wasn't designed for DI, such as a Sig, FN or ACR that's a different story altogether... plus you'd have ANOTHER rifle to play with (when's that a bad thing? :D)
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well stated Krackels. I'm not into gas piston conversions either. They seem to be all the tacticool rage now. Sure it's a little cleaner, but wouldn't you still try and clean your rifle after every shoot anyway? And for $400 you have an extra moving part to further mess with accuracy. No thanks... On the flipside, lots of folks are talkin' wonders about the PWS kit that ARin mentioned...

IMHO, If you were to buy a factory rifle that specifically wasn't designed for DI, such as a Sig, FN or ACR that's a different story altogether... plus you'd have ANOTHER rifle to play with (when's that a bad thing? :D)
I think the conversions are "all the tacticool rage" now because HK showed it was not only a good idea in terms of improving reliability, increasing the life of the weapon, and in reducing the amount of carbon fouling. I don't know about you guys but cleaning an AR used to be fun but now I consider it more like shaving .... when I first had the weapon I cleaned it every chance I could now I do it only because I have to. If the gas piston makes cleaning considerably easier or even lets a guy shoot a bunch more before he has to clean the weapon ... well I am one guy who says RIGHT ON!!!

Somebody educate me if I am too far off base here but is there really that big of a diference between retro fitting a piston kit versus when the manufacturer is putting the weapon together? I seriously doubt it.

An email back from Bushmaster today said their kit is $399 and that includes installing it. Based on what I could read on the PWS that may be the case as well.

By the way, not to beat my chest too much but when this whole topic of gas piston versus the gas impingement system starting making the gun forum boards several years ago I was one who said this will be "the thing" in the AR world. Despite the fact that elite units like the SEAL's were asking for them many said it would pass. Now here these piston systems are being offered up to us civi's and I am lovin' it! Now before I get flammed too much I will admit that for the military outside of the elite type units to get piston operated weapons will take a good long time. But mark my words they will be standard at some point down the line.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I've looked at the kits. I find it hard to justify a $400 add on part to convert your rifle to gas-piston operation.

I'd be more likely to shell out the bucks to buy a gas-piston upper w/ bcg.
I'd consider it an "upgrade" rather than just an "add-on." I'm not made of money so in comparing the cost of a new gas piston upper to upgraded parts for an existing AR, to achieve similar results, I'll opt for the upgrade @ $299. Each to his own I suppose.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm not into gas piston conversions either. They seem to be all the tacticool rage now. Sure it's a little cleaner, but wouldn't you still try and clean your rifle after every shoot anyway?
tacticool has nothing to do with it, and those of you that believe piston conversions or piston ARs in general are nothing but "tacticool" must not understand a thing about them.

I am a left handed shooter, shooting a 10.5 inch SBR, suppressed. This means my face is shotgunned with hot gas and particles....If i even pulled the trigger ONCE without protective glasses, im pretty sure i would be blind in my right eye.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
...If the gas piston makes cleaning considerably easier or even lets a guy shoot a bunch more before he has to clean the weapon ... well I am one guy who says RIGHT ON!!!

Somebody educate me if I am too far off base here but is there really that big of a diference between retro fitting a piston kit versus when the manufacturer is putting the weapon together? I seriously doubt it...

... But mark my words they will be standard at some point down the line.
You're right KEVWYO, I would agree that a retrofit isn't really much of a difference on an already modular platform. I was trying to point out that value wise, it might make more sense financially to purchase it while 'building another rifle from parts' or buying a complete rifle that already has a gas piston system, but I'm in no way against them & am always happy to hear I got less to clean. Hell, I have an ACR on order... :D Perhaps my wording came across wrong.

Gas Pistons may very well just be the standard in the near future - and that's a good thing for everyone. :D

I am a left handed shooter, shooting a 10.5 inch SBR, suppressed. This means my face is shotgunned with hot gas and particles....If i even pulled the trigger ONCE without protective glasses, im pretty sure i would be blind in my right eye.
I'm a lefty, too. :) Believe me ARin, I can clearly see the benefits of the Piston system & am not trying to downplay them at all, perhaps my writing comes across that way (it's hard to exude proper 'tone' in typing). I was just posting my opinion in my case of the 'real-world' value I'd get for the $400 based on my shooting habits - in that sense it would only serve to make my AR 'cooler', but not in practice or legitimate need.

I know for a fact I don't have anywhere near respectable experience you have with AR's, based on your various and informative posts here as well m4carbine & arfcom, I'm still much of a newbie when it comes to this - it's simply my personal opinion.

I've only shot my AR on a few occasions without any protective gear; I can't say it's pleasant, but I'd say it depends on the person when it comes to 'blinding' based on many factors (postion relational to body, dominant eye, AR build, etc..) The shorty build would definately add to the blast, for sure. In your case a gas piston would certainly make more sense because of the suppressor and it's ability to easily handle different cycling pressures effectively, plus it would certainly help keeping your shorty's kick in check.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
We have a new piston bushy in the shop. The problem with it is that you cannot use any other hand guards on it. What comes in that kit are the only hand guards that will fit over the piston housing. Also, while I understand the reasoning, I hate that the piston is not sprung, and while the bolt is open you can hear/fell it sliding around freely. It's nothing that would ever matter under real world conditions, but I just don't like it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
We have a new piston bushy in the shop. The problem with it is that you cannot use any other hand guards on it. What comes in that kit are the only hand guards that will fit over the piston housing. Also, while I understand the reasoning, I hate that the piston is not sprung, and while the bolt is open you can hear/fell it sliding around freely. It's nothing that would ever matter under real world conditions, but I just don't like it.
The PWS system is not sprung either, BUT the op-rod is actually connected to the carrier, rather than to the piston. I dont know if that will make a difference in the "sliding" sound.

the PWS will also fit under MOST popular free float quad rails. another reason i picked them.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Do you know if it would it fit under the slim Troy or Samson Mfg. MRF rails without too much modification?
taken from PWs FAQ

--Will your system fit under my free float handguard?

Currently the only rails that our system will work with are listed in the description area of the product page. As we find more we will add them to that list. As a general rule, the top of any compatible handguard cannot extend past the back of our gas block as this block is the same height as the rail on the upper receiver of your weapon.--

right now the ones they have listed are Daniel Defense Lite and Omega rails, and LaRue.


I have a RRA CAR upper, that I got before I did as much research as i should have into the whole AR thing. AKs were more my realm before. If I had done the research I should have I would have gone with a CMMG. As such I am prepared to sell my RRA upper and replace it with a CMMG in order to obtain the proper "voodoo." (I know I dont need the voodoo, but I want an LE grade rifle that I could depend on for my life if I had to, so please don't ask me to reconsider under the pretense of "need." also, I hate cleaning guns) With that said, I want to go for the Piston conversion as well. My question is, if I just converted my RRA to a piston upper, would any advantage of the "voodoo" be negated? so is it even worth going to a CMMG if i am planning on going to a Piston anyway?
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I myself am planning on converting to the Ares kit offered by Bushmaster before I take the carbine course with my agency. If I am going to fire a bunch of rounds, I want an easy cleanup!
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I myself am planning on converting to the Ares kit offered by Bushmaster before I take the carbine course with my agency. If I am going to fire a bunch of rounds, I want an easy cleanup!
as a bit of advice between friends.....PLEASE do yourself a favor and seriously consider PWS before the ares system.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
One thing I've read in my research on the gas piston retro fit is that initially they didn't work very well with the standard bolt carrier. The piston rod would cause the carrier to tilt which increased wear and tear and reduced reliability. A change in the carrier to increase it's mass and center of gravity (don't quote me here ... I read so much I can't remember how much is me remembering accurately and how much is me "thinking" I know what I read) corrected the problem. I think I read this in regards to HK's development of the piston system.

With that being said I have noted that the Bushmaster/Ares system does have a different carrier to be used with the piston system. The PWS seems to have a standard carrier. THAT BEING SAID .... I like the looks of the PWS system better. I think it's the supported op rod that has me becoming a PWS believer.

The downside to all this wanting to do a retro fit is that I'll have to invest in some new forearms which I have noted are exactly cheap.

ARin ... am I correct you have a AR with the PWS system in it?
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
One thing I've read in my research on the gas piston retro fit is that initially they didn't work very well with the standard bolt carrier. The piston rod would cause the carrier to tilt which increased wear and tear and reduced reliability. A change in the carrier to increase it's mass and center of gravity (don't quote me here ... I read so much I can't remember how much is me remembering accurately and how much is me "thinking" I know what I read) corrected the problem. I think I read this in regards to HK's development of the piston system.

With that being said I have noted that the Bushmaster/Ares system does have a different carrier to be used with the piston system. The PWS seems to have a standard carrier. THAT BEING SAID .... I like the looks of the PWS system better. I think it's the supported op rod that has me becoming a PWS believer.

The downside to all this wanting to do a retro fit is that I'll have to invest in some new forearms which I have noted are exactly cheap.

ARin ... am I correct you have a AR with the PWS system in it?
Not YET....my upper is currently at PWS for retrofit.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
can i use the pws retrofit with a 10.3" upper? Will I be able to use a standard front site?
 
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