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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Make sure you get your hands on a copy of the article in or the full November issue of SWAT magazine. Pat Rogers wrote what I think is one of his clearest and most straight forward articles about using Red Dot optics. For those who have them and haven't had any training this will give you an idea (and I mean just an idea) of how to use them correctly and some of the whys.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm not planning any Ramboesque uses for my AR or my red dot scopes. Sure are fun to shoot at the range, though.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just pointing out a good read and learning opportunity. If you're happy with the way they work for you, cool. Me, I learned something and thought I would pass it on.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Please share the executive summary for those of us that don't have access to the article...did they say good, bad, you're crazy, both eyes open, one eye open, both eyes closed, etc? ;):cool:
Thank you.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Please share the executive summary for those of us that don't have access to the article...did they say good, bad, you're crazy, both eyes open, one eye open, both eyes closed, etc? ;):cool:
Thank you.
The things I took away from it was..

1. See through the dot to the target, don't focus on the dot like you would a front sight post at CQB ranges. Utilize the dot like a FSP at longer range, just not sub 100m

2. Don't set the sight ontop of the FSP (this is how I've done my co-witness zero's) and now I'm working to learn how to best use a lower 1/3 co-witness. Pat argues that the cheek weld shift is so insignificant that it really isn't an issue if you have to drop back to irons.

3. Don't use the red dot as a surrogate rear sight. I don't do this anyway, but I have been using it as a surrogate front sight post. See number 1

4. Make sure you know how to mount the optic. This is far more true for the AP's than EOT.

Another funny thing I thought was his commentary about the "Too Cool to Train" crowds that take his classes. WTF would you pay Pat Rogers that much money and not be willing to STFU and learn?

Again, I don't always agree with Pat on several points, this includes preferences for manufacturers and configurations, they just don't jive with what I need and do. But he's be doing this a lot longer than I have and has a ton more experience in getting shot at than I, so I try to listen when he speaks or writes.

There was more in the article, hell there was a great comment noting that Pat doesn't even bother turning off his AP's because of the obscene battery life. Another interesting note was regarding making sure you buy quality batteries, not just any ol' batch.

Still, you should read this article if you run a red dot optic, I'm sure there is more there to be learned than just the snippits I took away from it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Again, I don't always agree with Pat on several points, this includes preferences for manufacturers and configurations, they just don't jive with what I need and do. But he's be doing this a lot longer than I have and has a ton more experience in getting shot at than I, so I try to listen when he speaks or writes.

Thats kinda' contradicting. Its sort of like your saying "yeah ill listen as long as it suits my needs". ie ill listen to his commentary on optics, but screw him if he says LMTs are better than my DPMS.

There was more in the article, hell there was a great comment noting that Pat doesn't even bother turning off his AP's because of the obscene battery life. Another interesting note was regarding making sure you buy quality batteries, not just any ol' batch.

Aimpoints never truly "turn off" anyway. You just cant see the dot any longer.
........
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Make sure you get your hands on a copy of the article in or the full November issue of SWAT magazine. Pat Rogers wrote what I think is one of his clearest and most straight forward articles about using Red Dot optics. For those who have them and haven't had any training this will give you an idea (and I mean just an idea) of how to use them correctly and some of the whys.
Thanks for the heads up. I need to subscribe to SWAT. Pat frequents M4CARBINES.NET by the way.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Originally Posted by Badshot
Again, I don't always agree with Pat on several points, this includes preferences for manufacturers and configurations, they just don't jive with what I need and do. But he's be doing this a lot longer than I have and has a ton more experience in getting shot at than I, so I try to listen when he speaks or writes.

Thats kinda' contradicting. Its sort of like your saying "yeah ill listen as long as it suits my needs". ie ill listen to his commentary on optics, but screw him if he says LMTs are better than my DPMS.

Just because I don't agree with some of the things he says or teaches doesn't mean that I don't at least listen to what he has to say and his rational. I make an effort to listen to you (read and comprehend because we're being nit-picky little beaatches with your next response). I just don't agree with you or just about anyone all of the time. Pesky thing that free will and higher brain function hu?

So I ask how am I being contradictory? For your specific example, I don't own an DPMS, nor an LMT, but I do own STAG, RRA and Bushmaster weapons. The Bushmaster, while widely regarded as an excellent weapon is not in the same quality and reliability class as any of my 3 RRA's. While I may only have shot maybe somewhere around 100,000 rounds of 5.56/.223 (several thousand of those in real world combat situations) Just how much diversity in ownership and experience with manufacturers and/or combat/practical application of your weapons do you have? Not as much as I do (which is not to say that I am the end all be all when it comes to the platform, combat or real and lethal use of a firearm in this community), that I'll bet my next AR on. So for a change, why don't your go "Stake" your fingers somewhere they won't cause you any further embarrassment?


There was more in the article, hell there was a great comment noting that Pat doesn't even bother turning off his AP's because of the obscene battery life. Another interesting note was regarding making sure you buy quality batteries, not just any ol' batch.

Aimpoints never truly "turn off" anyway. You just cant see the dot any longer.

Well then no powered device is ever truly off so long as it is drawing current from a power source despite the ON/OFF setting. Does that better fit your persnickity little need for a "I know something too" commentary better?

Why you felt the need to piss on my response to another poster is beyond me, but in the future, have the courtesy to hold your neophyte and petty commentary if you have nothing tangible to contribute.


 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Originally Posted by Badshot
Again, I don't always agree with Pat on several points, this includes preferences for manufacturers and configurations, they just don't jive with what I need and do. But he's be doing this a lot longer than I have and has a ton more experience in getting shot at than I, so I try to listen when he speaks or writes.

Thats kinda' contradicting. Its sort of like your saying "yeah ill listen as long as it suits my needs". ie ill listen to his commentary on optics, but screw him if he says LMTs are better than my DPMS.

Just because I don't agree with some of the things he says or teaches doesn't mean that I don't at least listen to what he has to say and his rational. I make an effort to listen to you (read and comprehend because we're being nit-picky little beaatches with your next response). I just don't agree with you all of the time. How am I being contradictory? For your specific example, I don't own an DPMS, nor an LMT, but I do own STAG, RRA and Bushmaster weapons. The Bushmaster, while widely regarded as an excellent weapon is not in the same quality and reliability class as any of my 3 RRA's. While I may only have shot maybe somewhere around 100,000 rounds of 5.56/.223 (several thousand of those in real world combat situations) Just how much diversity in ownership and experience with manufacturers and/or combat/practical application of your weapons do you have? Not as much as I do, that I'll bet my next AR on. So for a change, why don't your go "Stake" your fingers somewhere they won't cause you any further embarrassment?

There was more in the article, hell there was a great comment noting that Pat doesn't even bother turning off his AP's because of the obscene battery life. Another interesting note was regarding making sure you buy quality batteries, not just any ol' batch.

Aimpoints never truly "turn off" anyway. You just cant see the dot any longer.

Well then no powered device is ever truly off so long as it is drawing current from a power source despite the ON/OFF setting. Does that fit your persnickity little need for a I know something commentary better?

Why you felt the need to piss on my response to another poster is beyond me, but in the future, have the courtesy to hold your neophyte and petty commentary if you have nothing tangible to contribute.

And yeah, not the most entertaining day of my life, so thank you for the oprotunity to vent just a fraction of that frustration on you and your idiotic and lack luster retort.
You were being kinda snotty lately, just felt like screwing with you basically. :cool:

I do that from time to time.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thank you for the information. I'll check my local newsstand to see if they have it. Sounds like information I can use.

The things I took away from it was..

1. See through the dot to the target, don't focus on the dot like you would a front sight post at CQB ranges. Utilize the dot like a FSP at longer range, just not sub 100m

2. Don't set the sight ontop of the FSP (this is how I've done my co-witness zero's) and now I'm working to learn how to best use a lower 1/3 co-witness. Pat argues that the cheek weld shift is so insignificant that it really isn't an issue if you have to drop back to irons.

3. Don't use the red dot as a surrogate rear sight. I don't do this anyway, but I have been using it as a surrogate front sight post. See number 1

4. Make sure you know how to mount the optic. This is far more true for the AP's than EOT.

Another funny thing I thought was his commentary about the "Too Cool to Train" crowds that take his classes. WTF would you pay Pat Rogers that much money and not be willing to STFU and learn?

Again, I don't always agree with Pat on several points, this includes preferences for manufacturers and configurations, they just don't jive with what I need and do. But he's be doing this a lot longer than I have and has a ton more experience in getting shot at than I, so I try to listen when he speaks or writes.

There was more in the article, hell there was a great comment noting that Pat doesn't even bother turning off his AP's because of the obscene battery life. Another interesting note was regarding making sure you buy quality batteries, not just any ol' batch.

Still, you should read this article if you run a red dot optic, I'm sure there is more there to be learned than just the snippits I took away from it.
 
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