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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, I thought I would make a thread dedicated to those that own AR15s that don't have a pony on the side nor are the top of the line (and usually with a hefty price tag to boot!) and the guns work. They don't fail every round because they don't have those modern m4 feed ramps because we all know the old feed ramps made the guns actually blow up on the 5th round or some non-sense like that. This thread is dedicated to everybody's Ar15 that works despite not having every X on "the chart."

Post a pic of your non-elitist AR15, amount of rounds fired and how well your gun has ran. Give us a round count and do give us FTF FTE counts if it has happened. Got a really good grouping show us a pic of the target!

The idea is to see how well your Oly, DPMS, Del-Ton, etc has actually held up vs the bs where if it isn't the "best" brand it will fail and blow up or something.

Let's kill the "chart" myth!
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Methinks you missed the point of the mythical "Chart" and its mil-spec check boxes. The makers you listed will work just fine for most consumers, but there are those who actually use their stuff for more than range work and plinking. For persons who run gear hard, Oly, Del-Ton etc don't offer the peace of mind that this gun won't fail when I need it to work.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My DPMS AP4 with EOtech. Shoots just fine. My bolt hasn't exploded and the barrel has no rust.


 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Methinks you missed the point of the mythical "Chart" and its mil-spec check boxes. The makers you listed will work just fine for most consumers, but there are those who actually use their stuff for more than range work and plinking. For persons who run gear hard, Oly, Del-Ton etc don't offer the peace of mind that this gun won't fail when I need it to work.

You sound very bitter.
I'm really not trying to be an ass, but define "run gear hard". Unless it's being used in theater or on a really aggressive swat team I just don't see it being run that hard, even for law enforcement. Honestly, even in the Army unless your MOS starts with 11,18,19(D) or 21 it probably won't be run hard.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm really not trying to be an ass, but define "run gear hard". Unless it's being used in theater or on a really aggressive swat team I just don't see it being run that hard, even for law enforcement. Honestly, even in the Army unless your MOS starts with 11,18,19(D) or 21 it probably won't be run hard.
You're not being an ass and you do bring up a valid point. I never said it was a large number, those who are in the civilian or contracting worlds who use their gear to its full potential is a very small number and non-milspec guns work great for almost everyone else. My father's Bushy has had Zero FTF/FTE since 2002. For the masses, non-spec guns will work just fine.

The sad thing is that I can buy better stuff in the civilian market than the Colts that are issued.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Methinks you missed the point of the mythical "Chart" and its mil-spec check boxes. The makers you listed will work just fine for most consumers, but there are those who actually use their stuff for more than range work and plinking. For persons who run gear hard, Oly, Del-Ton etc don't offer the peace of mind that this gun won't fail when I need it to work.

You sound very bitter.
Bitter? Me thinks you have not seen any of the threads I have posted of my gear.



The Rifle to the left is one I built: BCM upper BCG and Charging handle, the lower is Spikes tactical with an RRA LPK with 2 stage trigger, Magpul PRS stock, buffer spring from Brownells and DPMS buffer. The carbine to the right is an LMT with a eotech 552 and the handguards are Magpul MOE.

Something for the next build:



Spikes Tactical Upper, charging handle and BCG. I am very happy with my systems and not bitter at all.

Perhaps you are bitter in that you don't see the purpose of this thread. Unite AR15 owners in solidarity as we see these "lesser" AR15s keep up.

In my opinion as long as you have a good quality BCG and the right buffer an AR15 will shoot through thick and thin.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Looks good, love the design on the side. Whats the background on that logo?

Thanks,

It's our battalion crest (1 battalion 155th Infantry) over Infantry Cross Rifles. After our last deployment our S4 worked out a group buy with DPMS and Kimber to have some M4's and 1911's engraved. Here is my non-milspec Kimber.



 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You're not being an ass and you do bring up a valid point. I never said it was a large number, those who are in the civilian or contracting worlds who use their gear to its full potential is a very small number and non-milspec guns work great for almost everyone else. My father's Bushy has had Zero FTF/FTE since 2002. For the masses, non-spec guns will work just fine.

The sad thing is that I can buy better stuff in the civilian market than the Colts that are issued.
I'll buy that. It's to the point now where I've completely quit reading AR15.com due to the arm chair quarterbacks that turn so many new shooters away from RRA and Bushmaster. It amazes me since 5 years ago if you didn't buy from one of those two you couldn't be in the ar15.com cool guy club. For most of these guys new to the platform they are missing out on some great rifles that would leave them extra money for stuff like optics, ammo and cases. I'll admit, I'm planning on a BCM build soon, but it's mostly because I'm a gun nut.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I think the point of milspec rifles is you get more consistency in the manufacturing. You know X part will be within spec size and material quality. So while non milspec will run fine you will have a greater percentage of off spec parts. I have seen so with DMPS. I am not putting them down they run fine i have a delton although i believe mine is all milspec. I also have Bravo and Spikes rifles and other than being more accurate is more barrel design they both perform great.

But for the price or Spikes tactical of Bravo company rifles they have come believe the grand mark there is no reason not to get one over a DMPS. Normally they will have better barrels Hammer forged and better fit and finish. To me that is worth the 200-300 more.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ill sign this thread :)

Heres my RRA (at work dont have the full size pics) 1k rounds flawless feeding and ejection never had a problem with it. My last RRA i prob put 5-6k through and never had an issue



 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Ill sign this thread :)

Heres my RRA (at work dont have the full size pics) 1k rounds flawless feeding and ejection never had a problem with it. My last RRA i prob put 5-6k through and never had an issue



Looking good, looking real good. Free float rail?
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Let's kill the "chart" myth!
Yeah... Good luck with that! :wink:


Uriel999, what follows is only me commenting on things. i like you, and Vandal, and am not attacking you guys in any way, shape or form. I'm just airing my thoughts. That is all. I, too, dream of a world in which all AR-15 owners can smile at each other, and go skipping hand-in-hand down the firing line; regardless the make, type, or color of their rifle.

Methinks you missed the point of the mythical "Chart" and its mil-spec check boxes. The makers you listed will work just fine for most consumers, but there are those who actually use their stuff for more than range work and plinking. For persons who run gear hard, Oly, Del-Ton etc don't offer the peace of mind that this gun won't fail when I need it to work.
Just a couple comments on Vandal's post:

As far as 'persons who run gear hard' - One doesn't have to be a SWAT LEO, or a Secret Squirrel Ninja Operator to 'run gear hard.' There are plenty of AR-15 enthusiasts who go to carbine classes as often as they can because they enjoy it. Likewise, there are lots of run & gun competition guys who run their guns hard, too. As far as I know, you don't need to be LEO, active military, or former military to enroll in a lot of the classes that are available. For those who push their abilities and their weapons, reliability is sort of a big deal. However, not everything everybody uses in a class or competition setting is necessarily 'mil-spec' or conforms to 'The Chart.'

As far as 'The Chart' goes - The Chart lists the individual component specifications for M4-style rifles manufactured by various manufacturers with the intent to illustrate how closely manufacturers follow the actual military specifications for the select-fire M4 carbine. To quote the creator of the chart:

The Chart(s) that appears at the bottom of this page is all but worthless. It is critical, when considering an M4-pattern carbine, to ensure that you understand the list of features and can figure out for yourself if a specific feature is applicable to your intended use. If a sufficient number of the features below and on The Chart are not applicable to your use, then perhaps an M4-pattern carbine is not the right choice for you.
I do not believe the creator of The Chart ever intended it to serve as judge, jury, and executioner of all AR-15 manufacturers. But in some circles, it has been interpretted as such. If that's the way an individual wants to interpret the chart, then so be it; that's their choice - and may the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or whatever other deity they pray to have mercy on their souls if they choose to own anything less that 'mil-spec.' ;)

In my opinion as long as you have a good quality BCG and the right buffer an AR15 will shoot through thick and thin. quote]

Don't forget that proper maintenance and lubrication can also go a long way towards reliability. But yes, I do generally agree about the BCG and buffer, though I haven't experienced any failures specifically related to each of those items on my rifles. Not yet, or not that I am aware of, anyways.

I'll buy that. It's to the point now where I've completely quit reading AR15.com due to the arm chair quarterbacks that turn so many new shooters away from RRA and Bushmaster.
I had a conversation with an AR-15 component manufacturer (who will remain annonymous) this past spring in which I said that I believed at least half the people on AR15.com didn't even own an AR-15-type rifle. The manufacturer replied something to the effect of 'we often ponder the same notion.'

There are a lot of goofballs over at Arfcom, as well as on other firearms forums, including this one (Yes, really!). AR15.com, being one of the biggest int he business, seems to attract the most nutburgers. But it can still be a tremendously useful resource if you can recognize and sift through the BS. I think we're lucky that we are still a somewhat smaller community here on XDTalk, and the whackos are few and far between.

It amazes me since 5 years ago if you didn't buy from one of those two you couldn't be in the ar15.com cool guy club. For most of these guys new to the platform they are missing out on some great rifles that would leave them extra money for stuff like optics, ammo and cases. I'll admit, I'm planning on a BCM build soon, but it's mostly because I'm a gun nut.
Agreed. Times change, eh? I say get what you can afford, learn how to maintain it, and shoot it as much as you can.


For the record, I have DPMS and CMMG lowers purchased complete or assembled by me, an Olympic Arms 9mm upper, 2 Del-Ton complete uppers, and a brand-spanking new spectacularly awesome custom upper that I recently assembled all by myself with my own little hands and no outside help or adult supervision. I am a recreational shooter, and have little time and money to put towards my hobby. Someday I'd like to take a few carbine/rifle classes just for fun, but for now that remains a pipe dream.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I'll buy that. It's to the point now where I've completely quit reading AR15.com due to the arm chair quarterbacks that turn so many new shooters away from RRA and Bushmaster. It amazes me since 5 years ago if you didn't buy from one of those two you couldn't be in the ar15.com cool guy club. For most of these guys new to the platform they are missing out on some great rifles that would leave them extra money for stuff like optics, ammo and cases. I'll admit, I'm planning on a BCM build soon, but it's mostly because I'm a gun nut.

M4C.net is almost as bad, I keep a profile there for tech questions. My ARFCOM profile died long ago because of their "if you don't have (insert high end maker of the week here) you ain't sh!t" mentality. My first civilian rilfe class was shot with a Bushmaster. It worked very well, I am just looking for more consistency in the manufacturing process that the mil-spec stuff offers.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Sorry, no pics at work, but I recently traded for a RRA upper/Superior Arms lower rig. The only problem after about 200 rounds is that the Superior Arms lower doesn't seem to like to let go of Magpul PMags. The simple, and cheap, solution to that is $10 C Products aluminum magazines. :D

The PMags with the windows look cool but I don't want to be pulling the mag out of the receiver in the middle of a high-stress scenario. I want the mag to drop on its own.

Yes, I tried modifications to one of my PMags but to no avail.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Sorry, no pics at work, but I recently traded for a RRA upper/Superior Arms lower rig. The only problem after about 200 rounds is that the Superior Arms lower doesn't seem to like to let go of Magpul PMags. The simple, and cheap, solution to that is $10 C Products aluminum magazines. :D

The PMags with the windows look cool but I don't want to be pulling the mag out of the receiver in the middle of a high-stress scenario. I want the mag to drop on its own.

Yes, I tried modifications to one of my PMags but to no avail.
...the magwell could be out of spec....just sayin
 
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