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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hope this works and isn't too big. Here is my final parts list for my new AR. Tell me what you think! I haven't ordered anything YET, but will place the order shortly. Any criticism now or forever hold your peace!

(Oh, and no...I won't be going swimming with this one!
-- if you get it, great, if not, oh well...)

http://aerosurance.com/AR-15%20Build.pdf

BTW: I still can't decide on the ACOG vs. Leupold!!! I like the design of the ACOG, just have no idea its precision out to a few hundred yards compared to a "true" 4-14x50 or 3-10x40 scope. HELP!
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I wish I had your wallet. Nice build list. :cool:
I wish I had my wallet, too. Is this WAY overpriced for a premium AR? I know many of you will say to just get an LMT or some piston-type, but that simply raises the cost on the gun itself. The way I look at it, there are three designations:
1) The gun itself
2) Optics
3) Accessories

The LMT would raise (1) but (2) and (3) would remain the same.

Any other suggestions? I know you guys all have STRONG opinions!!!
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So would it be foolish to build an 18" SPR with a PRS stock...but NOT put a good Leupold scope on it? I mean...go with an ACOG? I have had answers to this question, but none that really address the DIFFERENCE between the a 4x ACOG and a 3-10x40 scope. Basically, is the ACOG considered a good sight for a "precision rifle"?
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It's all up to what YOU want ;) not what our opinions are.

If all you want to do is put bullet after bullet into the same hole at a couple of hundred yards then yes the higher power scope would be better. If you are wanting an all around shooter, then the Acog would fit that bill.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It's all up to what YOU want ;) not what our opinions are.

If all you want to do is put bullet after bullet into the same hole at a couple of hundred yards then yes the higher power scope would be better. If you are wanting an all around shooter, then the Acog would fit that bill.
Yeah I know it's all up to me. What I really want is 2 ar's: SPR AND SBR ! ! !

My concern is that an ACOG is not considered a "precision" scope and that it will look funny with the PRS stock.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The only reason i put a Leupold on mine was that is what i already had. It was a spare scope hanging around in my gun safe. Used it once with the scope for Caribou hunting. 99 percent of the time i use the iron sights.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I found a picture of what I think I am shooting for (pun intended). It just helps to see a photo of something similar.

It's a P.O.F. 18" SPR with PRS stock and ACOG.

 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Like others have stated, nice grocery list. I just got done redong my insurance on my firearms and DAM I was surprized how many $3k plus ARs I have, I mean these lego machine get there quick. As for the rifle.. its just me but I think a bipod and VFG should never be on the same rifle. More so I do not like the tango down since it slides down the rail, meaning you have to pull the bipdo to remove. Plus every tango down I held has felt sloppy? I guess thats a good enough description. I would go Larue on the VFG if you even need it. I would go with a differnt trigger too if I had the budget to do so and it looks like you might. 30rd mags with pullers and a 6-9 bipod when proned out equals drag across the deck. I use only 20 rd mags in my 20" for this reason (bench or west desert prone shooting).

I agree with the Leupold comment, but its your rifle... do what makes you happy regardless of what the "net"perts. I am saving to start the process of building a 18-20" larue stealth and going with a Mark 4 4.5-14 with doctor back up (have something simliar in a 18" 308 right now).

I am still interusted in seeing this setup and I am sure you will enjoy it regardless of whatever route you take, must have come across some money lately hopefully it was not because of a lost loved one. If so Im sorry.

Also last bit of info, upon waiting for a few of my last toys copleting I had to hunt to find certian things that were not backordered which involved time= money, extra shipping, and headaches. I finally got a 308PRS for my 24" DPMS, but it took over 3 months, I ended up finding 1 a month ago and completely spaced the backorder, so alas I have 2. Oh well it still fits the 223/5.56 as well and will go on the stealth mentioned above.

PS I also liked searching the LCP swim comment. Thanks for a laugh
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Like others have stated, nice grocery list. I just got done redong my insurance on my firearms and DAM I was surprized how many $3k plus ARs I have, I mean these lego machine get there quick. As for the rifle.. its just me but I think a bipod and VFG should never be on the same rifle. More so I do not like the tango down since it slides down the rail, meaning you have to pull the bipdo to remove. Plus every tango down I held has felt sloppy? I guess thats a good enough description. I would go Larue on the VFG if you even need it. I would go with a differnt trigger too if I had the budget to do so and it looks like you might. 30rd mags with pullers and a 6-9 bipod when proned out equals drag across the deck. I use only 20 rd mags in my 20" for this reason (bench or west desert prone shooting).

I agree with the Leupold comment, but its your rifle... do what makes you happy regardless of what the "net"perts. I am saving to start the process of building a 18-20" larue stealth and going with a Mark 4 4.5-14 with doctor back up (have something simliar in a 18" 308 right now).

I am still interusted in seeing this setup and I am sure you will enjoy it regardless of whatever route you take, must have come across some money lately hopefully it was not because of a lost loved one. If so Im sorry.

Also last bit of info, upon waiting for a few of my last toys copleting I had to hunt to find certian things that were not backordered which involved time= money, extra shipping, and headaches. I finally got a 308PRS for my 24" DPMS, but it took over 3 months, I ended up finding 1 a month ago and completely spaced the backorder, so alas I have 2. Oh well it still fits the 223/5.56 as well and will go on the stealth mentioned above.

PS I also liked searching the LCP swim comment. Thanks for a laugh
Thanks! Your post helped out a lot. And no, I did not loose a loved one but instead have been saving up for a while now to do this -- like a year. I want it to be perfect because I am not the type to ever own two alike guns. This will be my only semi-auto rifle, which is the last "type" of gun I think I need.

I had not thought about the 30rd mags and the bipod. Is this still true with the larue/harris bipod which feet extends?

I have the VFG there because this rifle will serve two primary purposes: 1) as a target/range gun 2) plinking. Therefore, I want the support and long range accuracy at the range, but the comfort and flexibility when plinking. Are my reasonings valid?

That's why I sorta chose the ACOG because it reasonably fills both requests, but I am still having a hard time understanding why the eotech at 4x is so great at hitting targets 400 yards away. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I like your idea of the leupold and reflex sight. That would be a killer combo to have the leupould and an eotech, but not co-witnessed (not on the same horizontal rail). How are you planning to do this?

Again, as far as the trigger, everyone seems to like the RRA, but what would you recommend as a dual-role trigger as I discussed before?

By no means am I criticizing anything you said, just simply justifying my reasons for doing so. I appreciate a good through critique.

I think I have also decided to do all black. I don't want this to look like a "parts gun", which some of the two-tones can do.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Here is my 20" with the BRMs bipod. No mag, but the feet are extended all the way


A similar 308 with the feet extended all but 1 notch short of all the way.


As for the leupold with a doctors... a EOtech would not work WAY to big, but with the larue LT104 mount, replace 1 side of on of the rings with the 137 mount and mount a docter, jpoint, fast fire ect. would look like this link: http://www.defensereview.com/1_31_2004/LarueTacticalScope-OffsetCQBSight(JPoint)Mount_1.jpg

I am still waiting on the optic, but the mount is just chilling there on mine. Best of both worlds, but deciding on the baby optic is up to you. I went doctor 7MOA since it is faster to acquire a target with, its metal construction for strenght, but you need to remove it to change the battery and it does not turn off, yet with the cover in place last a long time.

Or you can do the 3x FTS with red dot ect (eotech aimpoint whatever your flavor) which I just put the finishing touches to a few nights ago. This one has been slowly been building up to this stage over the last 2 years. It has seen dam near everything I have had at one time or the other. I like it alot. Fits me like a charm... so be it cost more than I care to know over the long run of parts on and off of it.



And you only THINK you are going to get 1, then a bug bites you and you ahve 8 before you know it.

As for triggers they are a personal preference, you really have to find one you like. Maybe hit up a few shops and see what the have assembled and dry fire to find your liking (friend/ fellow gun enthusists help here too). This also applies to the VFG. Me personally I think it is acqward to hold a AR with one, this is the reason none of my 7 have one. HOWEVER, my CX4 storm that has a VFG..... that gun feels like a extension of my body when I shoulder it. To date, still one of my favorite guns (and yes it beats my 9mm AR in the pistol carbine area easily). It is just one of those things you need to feel for yourself and decide.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That's a great idea with replacing the scope ring to add the Docter red dot! I think this is the direction I will take: Order the leupold and IF I ABSOLUTELY need closer ranging, then spend the additional 400-500 for the side mount and Docter.

Also, your bipod is not as tall as the taller model, which I hope will clear the 30-rounders.

Thanks.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I also liked the piggy back idea, thats why I did it. Overkill... probally. But I have money so who cares. As for the bipod, yes the other one you are looking at will be as long as the mine extended when collapsed, and 4" longer when extended. BUT how are you going to use it? If you still prone out, now you are fighting gravity to mount the weapon correctly and will not be able to relax and settle out for proper bone support and muscular relaxation, which is going to throwoff breath control and trigger control. With the bipod elevated this will decrease and your groups will increase. The BRMs is the common bench/ prone size and the most common size. If you want mock up a bipod using a few stick to hold the gun (use any long gun you have for this mockup) at the high and low limit for the bipod and see how you like it. But yes the 9-13 will clear a 30rd prone, but your body may not agree with the position. Just something to forewarn ya about.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yup, so here's two build options. Can someone just please pick one for me so I don't have to make the decision?!?!?! Hopefully this link works :)

Actually, I am REALLY looking into the Veldada 3-18x42 Scope! It has a wider range than the Leupold 4.5-14x50, and it sits lower! It's illuminated and won't cost "that" much more. I really have no idea why I am still holding onto the idea of the ACOG other than to make this thing faster on target, in case I decide to start doing 3-gun or whatnot.
3-18 x 42mm Tactical

I can get it for $1325 from NightVisionSales.
IOR Valdada 3-18x42 35mm Illuminated Tactical Scope, MP-8 Reticle, MEDIUM RINGS FREE SHIPPING: Nightvision Sales



 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I still like the leupy version. Just a question have you looked thru a ACOG before and see how small the reticle is? Also as said before, it should be your decision. I would not want someone to help me decide on my rifle. But I did listen to what everyone said. I also reviewed several times and guns for a few months while overseas. And finally got it the way I want it and am happy with my choices.

The 4.5-14x50 ill TMR is the same one on the top rifle I posted above. I would also move it back just a rail or 2. Are you going with the stealth upper and built lower? that would save a bit right there compared to the original shopping list.... or are you just using the template since it was avaliable?

Last, shortly 20rd PMAGs should be avialble I however still have 10 or so Cproduct 20rds.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Yeah, I was kidding about having somebody totally "pick" the rifle. I did take your advice on the shorter bipod and 20-rd mags (they didn't have 20-rd pmags on the build list).

Also, the system did not let you start with complete rifle, only the lower and you add the stealth upper. The Noveske I'm adding onto is a VIS platform. Is this a problem in your opinion or were you just questioning the online mock up? Would it be 'better' to go with a separate lower and stealth upper? I would think the VIS is a better option, but I could be wrong.

No, I have not seen an ACOG in person. None of my friends can afford it and I have yet to locate a shop in my town that has one in stock to view. But I am going to do my best to find one this weekend to see. Is the small reticle a bad thing?

The reason I like the IOR over the Leupold is the range. The Leupold starts at 4.5x and goes to 14x (which is PLENTY I think). However the IOR starts at 3x, which is would be better for fast-acquisition should I chose to solve my dual purpose dilemma. Do you have an objection to the IOR, or why would you choose the Leupold instead? They both have illuminated reticles and I have so far read great things about the Valdada (especially the newer models). The only complaint people have is the use a a steal tube, which adds to the weight, but I don't expect this bad-boy to be the lightest thing out there either, so what's a few ounces worth?

Thanks for all your advice!
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Now I want the ACOG...jeez, I really can't decide! This is getting rediculus and I am driving myself crazy. I am an OCD perfectionist, and I have buyers remorse many times, so I want to make sure I throughly think this through.

But this write up is quite good and may sway me back to the ACOG, because it does fill this dual role. I guess I now have to think if I want to go with the PRS stock. Not sure if this stock is "tacticool" with an ACOG.

I’ll be going over my experience with the Trijicon ACOG, how it works and why it’s such an awesome optic. The particular ACOG that I will be talking about is the 4x32 red chevron scope. 4x is enough magnification to get high chest shots out to 800 meters, and low enough to prevent tunnel vision. The model number is TA31F. The ACOG was developed for the military as a force multiplier allowing troops to identify, range, and engage targets out to 800 meters and still be useful for CQB. The ACOG has internal elevation and windage adjustments and uses a tritium assisted illuminated reticle that does not rely on batteries. It uses the BAC (Bindon Aiming Concept) and was designed to be used with both eyes open. The reticle is calibrated for military/shelf .223 or 5.56x45mm, so if you plan to hand load for your AR this might not be the best choice for you. This scope was designed for combat and is not the best choice for hunting because its range finding reticle was designed to range us not game animals.

Long Range Shooting with ACOG and Range Finding
Long range shooting with the ACOG will explain itself if I explain how they designed the reticle pattern. Looking through the scope the first thing you will notice is the bright red chevron. Under the chevron is a vertical post which the top tip is also illuminated. The next things you will notice are five crosshairs that run perpendicular to the vertical post. The first line has a 4 to the right of it, and then the numbers skip a line to the 6. The line between the labeled 4 and 6 is 5 but they didn’t include the extra numbers to stay away from cluttering things up. The last two lines at the bottom are 7 and 8. Everyone still with me? Good.
The very tip top of the red chevron is your aiming point for anything 100 meters and closer. The illuminated tip the vertical post is your 300 meter aiming point. There is no 200 meter aiming point so be aware of this, you might just have to judge it. The two bottom tips of the red chevron represent 19 inches from tip to tip at 300 meters. Each line represents 19 inches across at that range. This means that the 4 line represents 19 inches at 400 meters. The next line down which is the 5 line is 19 inches wide at 500 meters and so on all the way down to the bottom line which is 19 inches at 800 meters. They do this because 19 inches is the average width of a man’s shoulders. To find the range of your target all you need to do is measure his shoulder width using the lines or the chevron. When you find the one that fits use that aiming point and pull the trigger. If no lines fit the man out in front of you all you need to do is estimate between the line that is too big and the one that is too small. Correcting for windage is somewhat of a problem because of the internal adjustments. You have to use Kentucky windage at longer ranges with high winds.
Close Quarters Combat with the ACOG
Remember how I said this scope could be used for both long range shooting and CQB. This is because the ACOG uses the BAC (Bindon Aiming Concept). If you thought ranging was easy this is even easier, although it takes a little more training to get used to the BAC. This scope was designed to be used with both eyes open and when you do this you take advantage of the BAC. For room to room clearing all you need to do is look at the red chevron with both eyes, and the scope housing will almost disappear leaving you with a view of a bright red chevron. Put the chevron on the target and pull the trigger. Sounds like a red dot sight now doesn’t it? You might notice a little magnification but with training it becomes unnoticeable and second nature. As a good rule of thumb try and shoot anything closer than 300 meters with both eyes open. For targets farther than 300 meters go ahead and use one eye since 300 meters and farther is considered a precision shot for an assault rifle.
The illuminated reticle is very effective at night time, but during day time it gets almost too bright. A piece of green duct tape over the orange fiber optic will dull the chevron out and you’re golden. When you need more illumination just rip off the tape. That’s my low down on this great piece of gear.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Read the response to your post at AR15. Its not just me saying it. I have had a ACOG and was glad I was able to get the exact price back out of it. The MK4 is much better in my opnion, and I guess in his. But you need to find one and look thru it before you decide to purchase.
 
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