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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone have experience with these? I have a Stag and its a lot of fun to shoot but lately I have been pondering a pistol caliber carbine when it hit me that some folks may make pistol caliber uppers. Lo and behold there are a couple like Model 1 Sales.

Anyway, has anyone tried one of these and if yes, what has been your experience? I also see that there is a 7.62x39 upper as well. What kind of magazines do they take and is there any modification to the lower required?

Thanks.
 
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Discussion Starter #2
I've got a 9mm RRA and it is much fun. Several folks around here have them and a variety as well. They make for great training tools and cheaper plinkers.

As for the 7.62x39 .. you'd need a different lower for that as well. I believe one or two of the Piston AR makers have them in 7.62x39. Pretty sure they are mod'd AR mags, might be able to find one that uses AK mags, but I'm not certain.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
RRA 9mm... great indoor range gun. TONS of fun and WAY cheaper than .223 to fire. 100/200m outdoors I still prefer the 20" AR but indoors at this time of year the thing is a hoot to shoot! ;)

Pistol calibers can usually be fired on a pistol range, too but check with your gun club.

Lots of companies make uppers but some require a different hammer and other parts so aren't 100% hot swappable. Check the different companies for one that suits your needs. All are good if better known brands.

As for me, I'm still waiting for Olympic Arms to have a distributor here in Canada so I can order their .45ACP upper! :twisted:
 
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Discussion Starter #4
I've got a 9mm RRA and it is much fun. Several folks around here have them and a variety as well. They make for great training tools and cheaper plinkers.
The RRA 9mm system is a copy of the Colt system, which is an alternative to the Olympic Arms system, which was the first pistol caliber Ar made. The main differences are as follows:

  • Colt system is locking lug, and because of such it requires a different hammer, buffer, spring (in some cases), and modified lower or mag well block adapter.
  • Oly is straight blowback, which mewans great reliabiluty, much faster lock time, and uses an unmodified 223 lower. You can swistch back and forth betwen pistol cal and rifle calibers in seconds. Not possible with the Colt syste system.
The Oly system is faster, and far more verisitile, but the Colt sysyem works very well, and is desired by many shooters.

As for the 7.62x39 .. you'd need a different lower for that as well. I believe one or two of the Piston AR makers have them in 7.62x39. Pretty sure they are mod'd AR mags, might be able to find one that uses AK mags, but I'm not certain.
This is actually false. The 7.62x39 caliber conversions use standard .223/5.56 lowers with converted magazines. Additionally, I do not know wnay Ar manufacturer ustilizing the gas pistol system that makes a conversion to 7.62x39. Seems rather pointless since that's whatr every AK variant already is.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
I have a 9mm DPMS... Love it. I use sten magz... WW II stuff. But I clean them up... paint them and work perfect. The magz hold 30 rds.... nice for the range. Great for 25-50 yard shots. I just bought RRA upper.... First time shooting it yesterday.... 25 yds test fire bullseye without sighting it. LOVE IT..... Switch back to 9mm and shot 100 rds. FUN..FUN...FUN!!!!!
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Well I happily stand corrected on the Piston upper manufacturers (dedicated uppers that I cannot find), but disagree with the sentiment that there is no rational for 7.62x39 in the AR platform. I don't get to make manufacturing choices and my opinions are just that.. mine.

Though there are several of the newer generation assault rifles that have been designed to accommodate a operator level transition to 7.62x39. Specifically to my knowledge those would be the FN SCAR and Bushmaster/MagPul ACR platforms (I'm also thinking the XM8 was designed with this option in mind as well but could be recalling incorrectly). Knights Armament Co. had one on the boards for a while, I don't know what happened with that effort, but it would have utilized standard AK mags, hence a different magazine well, which would equal a different lower receiver.

MGI also offers 7.62x39 in their modular AR line which requires the mag well to be swapped out rather than the entire lower. Again another company that was rumored to have a Piston iteration of their weapon system.

We also can't discount the piston conversion options for the AR platform from the likes of Ares and a handful of other vendors. These in conjunction with a 7.62x39 upper and AK mag accepting lower would make for a more accurate weapon in that caliber... Perhaps something for you to mention to the R&D guys :) I know I'd consider one.

The RRA 9mm for my part was bought at an excellent price and has performed very well for the uses I originally described. The manual of arms is exactly the same, the ammo cost is lower and with honesty, this would be a weapon I would find acceptable for close quarters use (sub 25m).
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Well I happily stand corrected on the Piston upper manufacturers (dedicated uppers that I cannot find), but disagree with the sentiment that there is no rational for 7.62x39 in the AR platform. I don't get to make manufacturing choices and my opinions are just that.. mine.
I'm sorry, I guess I did not make myself clear. I have no problem understanding the need for an AR platform in 7.62x39. I own 2. There is a need for this. My comment was religated to the gas-piston operated AR in 7.62x39. The reason I do not see the need for that particular type of AR in that particular caliber, is that you have just turned an AR15 into an AK that has a different set of recievers. I will grant you that the AR, even in the gas piston system, will be more accurate than a similarly outfitted AK just simply by the nature of the locking lug bolt system during firing, but the nominal advantage gained in accuracy may be lost in reliability unless you have a dedicated AK magazine lower. Which again, is simply making an AR into an AK...

Though there are several of the newer generation assault rifles that have been designed to accommodate a operator level transition to 7.62x39. Specifically to my knowledge those would be the FN SCAR and Bushmaster/MagPul ACR platforms (I'm also thinking the XM8 was designed with this option in mind as well but could be recalling incorrectly). Knights Armament Co. had one on the boards for a while, I don't know what happened with that effort, but it would have utilized standard AK mags, hence a different magazine well, which would equal a different lower receiver.
...at which point we no longer have an AR15, but an AR look-alike.

Again, I have no problem with the caliber. Short range/CQB, it is a superior round to the 5.56x45 within the limitations of the Geneva Convention. But, it just seems like a great deal of work to recreate what we already have in the proven and reliable AK-47. But hey, if somebody wants to spend the time and money, I know they'd have a great system in the end. I just think it is another invention of the wheel is all.

MGI also offers 7.62x39 in their modular AR line which requires the mag well to be swapped out rather than the entire lower. Again another company that was rumored to have a Piston iteration of their weapon system.
Has anyone seen one in person? I have not. I know others who have had them on order for a very long time and are still awaiting delivery. It's a grand concept, but does it work? AND, if it does you'd still have a standard AR operating system... unless you pourchased the gas pistl conversion system.
  • Gas system $600-$800.00
  • MGI lower $400.00
  • Basic AR15 carbine $850.00
  • Dozen AK mags $150.00
  • Now you've got a really cool AR15 converted into an AK47 for $2,100.00!!
We also can't discount the piston conversion options for the AR platform from the likes of Ares and a handful of other vendors. These in conjunction with a 7.62x39 upper and AK mag accepting lower would make for a more accurate weapon in that caliber... Perhaps something for you to mention to the R&D guys :) I know I'd consider one.

The RRA 9mm for my part was bought at an excellent price and has performed very well for the uses I originally described. The manual of arms is exactly the same, the ammo cost is lower and with honesty, this would be a weapon I would find acceptable for close quarters use (sub 25m).
Agreed. No argument there! Those pistol cal carbines are fun. I have a 10mm, and just sold one of two uppers in 41 AE ever made!
 
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