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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
6.8 SPC Vs. 7.62mm Vs. 5.56mm

After reading through this part of XDTalk for the last couple days, I've been infected. :twisted: I've never really thought much about building an AR, but after seeing one that a local guy built (and wiping the drool off my chin) I started thinking seriously about it.

Another member (XdAndMe) just started a build in the last week or so and I was amazed at the amount of information and sources of information the combined members here have. And boy, is there a lot to digest!
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My initial thought about what I'd like to build was an AR in 7.62 NATO with a 16' barrel since I have an M1A and there would be a common round to shoot as well as I just bought a .223 semi-auto rifle, but then I stumbled onto information about the 6.8mm SPC. After reading more about it, I'm thinking that may be the direction I'd prefer to go, but I'd like to hear from those of you that have been involved in "the black gun" and specifically anyone with first hand knowledge of the choices as I've mentioned.

Keep in mind that this is going to be a California build if that makes a significant difference. I would be using it to pig hunt and we see a lot of "opportunity targets" while we're out too. I have a .223 "plinker" so I don't expect it will be much of a range gun except to get it broke in and become comfortable with it.

Am I WAY out in left field with this or what? :confused:
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I want to do a build in something bigger than 223 or 556, but if it was my first or only AR I would just stick with 223 or 556. Because the ammo is cheaper and you will be able to shoot it more, the ammo is easier to find, parts are more more readily available.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'd say 7.62 if you're already happy with your .223 gun. 6.8 is cool and all, but the availability of the ammo makes it a pricey proposition. Guess if cost isn't an issue then sure why not, the ballistic characteristics of the 6.8 are really nice. Me, I like to keep it simple, I stay in my comfort zone and only have 5 calibers to feed, which is still a lot when it comes time to get ammo. I don't think you'll be disappointed in having another 7.62 weapon in the stable.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If you are going to build a 7.62 version, you will first need to figure out which version. Uppers are not compatible between DPMS and Armalite, but some parts are. You can get stripped Eagle Arms (Armalite) lowers reasonable, and then do what you want for the upper. I am not sure about getting stripped DPMS 7.62 lower.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Here in Cali an AR build is not going to be what it is in other states. At all.
You might want to consider a Mini-14 or Mini-30.
Check out metroshotfirearms.com for some Cal-OK builds.
Don't push your luck, it's not worth it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Mad Geek, if you do decide to go ahead with a build, I can attest that you'll have fun filling in the lower receiver from a parts kit. :) There's a great instructional video on AR15.com that really made it a snap for me. The hardest part is really just keeping the springs under tension while you're trying to get the detents & pins in. A little patience required, but well worth it. I had never done it before, but with the instructions on AR15.com it only took me a couple hours (with breaks and fooling around in between) with some basic house tools (a light hammer, a needle-nose pliers, and a .223 snap-cap to use as a punch).

I'm not sure how similar the AR-10 is, but I would assume very.

As for caliber, I can only think of one question: is the AR platform too light for the 7.62 round? Just make sure you can control the recoil. Too light of a gun could make larger calibers impractical, IMO. Just something to look up-- I have no clue about it. I also don't know how much wear & tear 7.62 would put on the bolt and other internals compared to a smaller round. One thing I learned so far is that carbines with short gas systems really do take a beating and they're a little snappier to shoot. That's why I decided on a mid-length gas system for my build, in addition to having a longer handguard.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yep that recoil is a booger i here in a AR-10 type.I was watchin a video of a guy plinking with a 450 Bushy and it looked pretty stout.i know the 450 is on the standard platform but i dont think there would be a big difference between the the two in that respect.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I went with 6.5 Grendel. Why settle when you can have the best of both (5.56 and 7.62) worlds? ;)
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'll take a TOTP while I'm at it. :mrgreen:

Thanks for everyone's input.

I've already got a .223 "plinker", a Kel-Tec SU-16, the CA approved model that I bought a few weeks ago. That's what made me realize I should've built an AR to begin with. I've looked at the Ruger Mini's and they're just not what I want.

I know that CA legal builds are different than what can be done elsewhere legally, but I've seen some real sweet CA rifle builds. Most recently, other than on this forum, I saw an AR that a guy up here in the hills where I live built. I was surprised to see what can be legally built. That's when the bug bit me.

The CA penal code spells things out pretty clearly (well, sorta) and as long as it isn't on the "bad list" by manufacturer or model, there really is some flexibility. With a combination of parts from Stag, RRA and others it looks like I can put something really nice together.

As far as caliber, I think I've narrowed down to .223 or 6.8 SPC and leaning more toward the 6.8 SPC. I want something that will "reach out and touch somebody" so to speak, since I do some wild pig hunting and "targets of opportunity" (coyote and varmints) and the weight and recoil of a .308 is a definite consideration. Trust me, cost is always an issue, but as far as ammo cost and availability, I've got a Dillon progressive setup so that should absorb some of the cost and make my ammo more available, at least that was the main reason I bought it.

XDAndMe, I have to partially blame you for the direction I've headed with this. You just seemed to be having too much fun and I wasn't having any of it except vicariously. :mrgreen: I looked at the assembly steps on AR15.com (couldn't find the video you described) and it looks WAY to easy. I don't suspect I'll have too many issue with whatever I wind up doing with all the help and advice I've seen you get in your thread.

When I get "all my ducks in a row" I'll start a new thread. Maybe "CA AR Build: My First Odyssey" or something snappy like that. :mrgreen:
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
6.8 SPC Vs. 7.62mm Vs. 5.56mm

After reading through this part of XDTalk for the last couple days, I've been infected. :twisted: I've never really thought much about building an AR, but after seeing one that a local guy built (and wiping the drool off my chin) I started thinking seriously about it.

Another member (XdAndMe) just started a build in the last week or so and I was amazed at the amount of information and sources of information the combined members here have. And boy, is there a lot to digest!
________________________

My initial thought about what I'd like to build was an AR in 7.62 NATO with a 16' barrel since I have an M1A and there would be a common round to shoot as well as I just bought a .223 semi-auto rifle, but then I stumbled onto information about the 6.8mm SPC. After reading more about it, I'm thinking that may be the direction I'd prefer to go, but I'd like to hear from those of you that have been involved in "the black gun" and specifically anyone with first hand knowledge of the choices as I've mentioned.

Keep in mind that this is going to be a California build if that makes a significant difference. I would be using it to pig hunt and we see a lot of "opportunity targets" while we're out too. I have a .223 "plinker" so I don't expect it will be much of a range gun except to get it broke in and become comfortable with it.

Am I WAY out in left field with this or what? :confused:
OK, if you're wanting a 7.62 NATO [308] you won't get it from an AR15 because the magwell isn't long enough. That's what the AR10 and SR25, etc is for.

IMHO, the 6.8 is a good round and though the military chose not to adopt it doesn't mean that it's not catching on like wildfire. I thought originally that the new chambering was sort of a fluke considering we're basically talking about a .270 so I was expecting comparable results to a .223, but seeing real world tests, evaluations I am no longer a skeptic. It hits harder and is almost just as accurate (more drop at longer ranges however). Basically, the 6.8 is a necked down 7.62x39 casing with an almost 270 bullet in it (specifically .277) if that helps.

The 7.62x39 chambering would be even harder hitting if Cproducts would just release the darn magazines. Getting reliable magazines or altering existing ones is the only real disadvantage to the 7.62x39 at this point because there just isn't much out there for the AR market concerning mags. In comparing the 223, 6.8 and 7.62x39, well, the AK round is definately more devastating, but getting them to shoot with modified mags is a whole other topic altogether

My 2 cents.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
My current build project is a .204 Ruger. Im going to run a 39 grain bullet at 4000 fps. Shoots like a laser beam out to 400 yards. It will handle 30 grain bullets up to 50 grain. Its a critter wacker project.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The .204 is a little laser. If you haven't gotten the bolt/barrel for it yet, I recommend talking to Mike at Dedicated Technology. He's the guy who first started the WSSM chamberings for AR's if you've seen any of them around and he is a great resource.

Dtech (Mike) is a moderator at several specialty forums for wildcat loaders and varmint hunters and if you're into reloading, he's got some sweet loads for the ones he works with (including the .204). And he's also about to release some new WSSM's like the .300

If you talk to him, tell him John A. referred you to him. He'll know who you're talking about.

I believe it's well worth the email to him. And being a second generation gunsmith, and is one of the premiere custom builders in the country. So don't let his small website fool you. His proof is in whatever you pull the trigger on.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The .204 is a little laser. If you haven't gotten the bolt/barrel for it yet, I recommend talking to Mike at Dedicated Technology. He's the guy who first started the WSSM chamberings for AR's if you've seen any of them around and he is a great resource.

Dtech (Mike) is a moderator at several specialty forums for wildcat loaders and varmint hunters and if you're into reloading, he's got some sweet loads for the ones he works with (including the .204). And he's also about to release some new WSSM's like the .300

If you talk to him, tell him John A. referred you to him. He'll know who you're talking about.

I believe it's well worth the email to him. And being a second generation gunsmith, and is one of the premiere custom builders in the country. So don't let his small website fool you. His proof is in whatever you pull the trigger on.
I have had a phone conversation with him before, GREAT guy. He is a member of another forum I am on and offered to help me with ANYTHING he can on my build, even free phone help. Thats a hell of a gunsmith!
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Dtech will be drilling the gas port for my dedicated 22LR shorty upper as soon as I send him the barrel blank. Right now I'm just waiting on the other parts to get here before sending it to him and they're supposed to be here Thursday.

I know there are a ton of reputable smiths, but Mike's the only guy in the whole world I trust with my stuff besides myself. And for things like finishing a barrel blank, I trust him more :D.



Sorry for the hijack
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for your posts John A. and ichy.

The SR25 looks like a whole lot of full size rifle. More than I'd want to have to carry very far huntin' pigs. And at the price of $3000. + that I saw at for a Knights SR25 @ Impact Guns, I think I'll pass. ;)

What I found on the .204 Ruger round may be dated, but it sounds like a hell of a round. Being as I'm looking for something I can hunt with I'm not sure about a round that small. Not that it won't knock down what I want, just whether it would be allowed by Fish and Game dept.

Sounds like 6.8 is where I'll continue to look unless my builder buddy has some other thoughts. I'm not sure what caliber his build is, but I remember it being something obscure that Hornady makes and he's getting reloading dies setup for it. I'll share with him what everyone here has said and what I'm looking to accomplish and see what direction he suggests.

Thanks again. :mrgreen:
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
What I found on the .204 Ruger round may be dated, but it sounds like a hell of a round. Being as I'm looking for something I can hunt with I'm not sure about a round that small.
From what I hear, the 6.8 is the cat's meow for deer. Watching things at my local gun club, it seems the 6.8 is really starting to take off, now that all the major manufacturers are making rifles in that caliber. I'd personally love to get a Ko-Tonics upper and slap it on my AR.
 
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