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Discussion Starter #2
m4guru on mrcarbine.net has one and has posted a few reviews and pictures.

My upper is currently at PWS right now for conversion.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
m4guru on mrcarbine.net has one and has posted a few reviews and pictures.

My upper is currently at PWS right now for conversion.
Do you have a link to this discussion? Seems like a much less expensive route than the Bushmaster and LWRC options.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Do you have a link to this discussion? Seems like a much less expensive route than the Bushmaster and LWRC options.
please forgive me, its not m4guru, it is gotm4 that has been posting reviews.

Also, if you search for it, SMGLee has a few reviews scattered around various forums.

My 2nd review of the Primary Weapons piston conversion - M4Carbine.net Forums

there is also some discussion on the release thread at ar15.com, but some of the pics are of the gen1 unit.

AR15.COM :: Forums :: Official PWS Piston System Release


I researched this a LOT prior to committing my money.....and the PWS seems to be the most squared away retrofit on the market.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
It also isn't a complete upper like the bushmaster or LWRC option, it's just replacement parts.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
please forgive me, its not m4guru, it is gotm4 that has been posting reviews.

Also, if you search for it, SMGLee has a few reviews scattered around various forums.

My 2nd review of the Primary Weapons piston conversion - M4Carbine.net Forums

there is also some discussion on the release thread at ar15.com, but some of the pics are of the gen1 unit.

AR15.COM :: Forums :: Official PWS Piston System Release


I researched this a LOT prior to committing my money.....and the PWS seems to be the most squared away retrofit on the market.
When we're talking about retrofitting, would it be wiser for me to simply get a piston system from the get go. I'm doing my research on building my first AR and I'm wondering if I'd be better off just starting out with a piston system rather than getting something with DI and retrofitting...
 
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Discussion Starter #8
When we're talking about retrofitting, would it be wiser for me to simply get a piston system from the get go. I'm doing my research on building my first AR and I'm wondering if I'd be better off just starting out with a piston system rather than getting something with DI and retrofitting...

your needs are going to determine that. Let me preface by saying that there is NOTHING wrong with the DI system. However, for certain applications, a piston helps.

myself, for instance, am a left handed shooter....shooting a 10.5 SBR suppressed. this means SHOTGUN blast of gas and powder in my face every time i pull the trigger. I am hoping that a piston system will help with that.

POF and LWRC make great piston rifles, with the added bonus of full gun warrantee. However, i have a sneaking suspicion (due to a few key design elements) that the PWS system is just as good, if not even better than the factory piston designs currently available on the market.... Time will tell as all of these systems are still rather "new". But as far as i am concerned, the ARES/BM and the OSPREY retrofit kits are not even an option, as i feel they have a few critical design issues.

How pricey is it?
I do T&E for an FFL, so i got one at T&E cost.....but visit PWS for retail.
www.primaryweapons.com
 
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Discussion Starter #9
your needs are going to determine that. Let me preface by saying that there is NOTHING wrong with the DI system. However, for certain applications, a piston helps.

myself, for instance, am a left handed shooter....shooting a 10.5 SBR suppressed. this means SHOTGUN blast of gas and powder in my face every time i pull the trigger. I am hoping that a piston system will help with that.

POF and LWRC make great piston rifles, with the added bonus of full gun warrantee. However, i have a sneaking suspicion (due to a few key design elements) that the PWS system is just as good, if not even better than the factory piston designs currently available on the market.... Time will tell as all of these systems are still rather "new". But as far as i am concerned, the ARES/BM and the OSPREY retrofit kits are not even an option, as i feel they have a few critical design issues.



I do T&E for an FFL, so i got one at T&E cost.....but visit PWS for retail.
www.primaryweapons.com

I just want ease of cleaning and reliability. Should there ever be an issue that results in a SHTF, I want to make sure that dedicated time for cleaning a rifle doesn't have to be a priority over other survival needs.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
well, ease of cleaning goes to the piston

reliability is a big question mark as far as the piston systems are concerned.

granted, in THEORY a piston should make a system more reliable by keeping crud out of the action.....however, rarely does ADDING parts to a system lead to an increase in reliability. every part added to the system is another potential failure point.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
well, ease of cleaning goes to the piston

reliability is a big question mark as far as the piston systems are concerned.

granted, in THEORY a piston should make a system more reliable by keeping crud out of the action.....however, rarely does ADDING parts to a system lead to an increase in reliability. every part added to the system is another potential failure point.
The theory of keeping the the heat and fouling out of the action should be a huge gain in reliability. The HK416 has proven to be more reliable than the standard M4...that's good enough for me. I don't intend to abuse my rifle on purpose, but I want to know that if I have to, it will hold up.
 
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Discussion Starter #12
the hk416 has proven no such thing. it hasnt been AROUND long enough to have proven its long term reliability.

Will it go longer in between cleanings? yes.

does it have a longer reliable service life? who knows.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
the hk416 has proven no such thing. it hasnt been AROUND long enough to have proven its long term reliability.

Will it go longer in between cleanings? yes.

does it have a longer reliable service life? who knows.
I meant about being subjected to dirty environments with fewer cleanings and maintenance. It will be trial and error as we can't wait 40 years to find out if the gas piston systems work as the AR has been around for over 40 years.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
and that is my point.

will a piston gun go 2000 rounds between cleanings? maybe.
will the piston snap in half at 2001 rounds? maybe....;)

we KNOW that a DI AR CAN last several thousand rounds with regular routine maintenance...what we dont know is how well the added parts of a piston system will effect longevity of the weapon.



anyhow, back to our original post.
my suggestions for a piston rifle
LWRC factory gun
POF factory gun
PWS factory installed retrofit

the prices on hk's are ridiculous, so they dont even make the list.
the other retrofits (i think) are flawed.
 
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Discussion Starter #15
and that is my point.

will a piston gun go 2000 rounds between cleanings? maybe.
will the piston snap in half at 2001 rounds? maybe....;)

we KNOW that a DI AR CAN last several thousand rounds with regular routine maintenance...what we dont know is how well the added parts of a piston system will effect longevity of the weapon.



anyhow, back to our original post.
my suggestions for a piston rifle
LWRC factory gun
POF factory gun
PWS factory installed retrofit

the prices on hk's are ridiculous, so they dont even make the list.
the other retrofits (i think) are flawed.
Are those recommendations in any particular order? The H&K is not available to civilians in a semi auto version anyway.
 
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Discussion Starter #17
yet. it should happen 3rd quarter. but they will probably delay.
I read an article, probably won't be able to find it, but it said to the effect that they have no intentions of releasing it to the civilian market.

Where are you getting details about them letting them out of the stable this year?
 
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Discussion Starter #19
jtkratzer said: The theory of keeping the the heat and fouling out of the action should be a huge gain in reliability. The HK416 has proven to be more reliable than the standard M4...that's good enough for me. I don't intend to abuse my rifle on purpose, but I want to know that if I have to, it will hold up.
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the hk416 has proven no such thing. it hasnt been AROUND long enough to have proven its long term reliability.

Will it go longer in between cleanings? yes.

does it have a longer reliable service life? who knows.
I think the HK system has proven itself enough that if Delta and the SEAL's are asking for it then something must be good with it. If the piston system isn't proven in the reliable department then why do it? ARin isn't your AR getting a PWS retrofit?????
 
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Discussion Starter #20
as far as OPERATION, i expect it to work as advertised.....as far as longevity, i dont know. no one does. rarely does adding parts to a system increase its long term reliability.

what the "seals" ask for is of no consequence. highly trained trigger pullers are rarely "gun guys" nor are they engineers.

yes, my upper is being piston converted right now. more out of necessity than anything. as a left handed shooter, shooting a suppressed SBR, i need to keep the gasses out of the receivers, and out of my face. I AM CAUTIOUSLY optimistic about the longevity of piston systems on ARs....cautiously being the operative word.

already a lot of reports of non-standard wear patterns on piston AR's.
 
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