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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, I'm broke at the moment, but I can still window shop. What would be your ultimate SHTF AR to build? Looking for manufacturers, barrel lengths, stocks, etc...I'm hoping to start buying parts as $$ comes available.

And FYI, I'm black gun ignorant, but willing to learn.
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Stag, Rock River, Bushmaster, S&W or Colt - "M4".
Then add parts/pieces as funds come (Scope, grips, light etc)
 
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Discussion Starter #3
A Leitner-Wise CP with a 16.1" barrel, Magpul MIAD Grip (with spare bolt and firing pin), Aimpoint, Aimpoint Magnifier (On a LaRue flip mount), Vertical foregrip, with spare batteries. I think that would be about perfect.:D:D:D
 
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Discussion Starter #4
low money and need of SHTF rifle..
iran is knocking..
go out tonight and by a wasr 10 and some x39.

:-D
 
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Discussion Starter #5
low money and need of SHTF rifle..
iran is knocking..
go out tonight and by a wasr 10 and some x39.

:-D
When Iran knocks, they will be knocking with nuclear ballistic missiles that are parked in Venezuela. Not Ak-47's.

But, boy that does sound fun!!!
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Keep it simple, light and pretty bland.

My absolute preference would be a POF 16 or 18" rifle with plain ol' HG's, no rail.

16" Barrel w/ a mid-length gas system
Detachable carry handle or a Troy BUIS
MAID Grip with spare bolt and pin.
Basic forend w/ add on rail parts for a VFG.
Non-battery powered optic .. something in the ACOG line.
Ammo, Ammo and more Ammo with mags.. PMags are my preference, but there is nothing wrong with USGI mags.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Real SHTF? Who is going to fix your incredibly rare gas-piston gun when it breaks? (And make no bones about it, each and every one of those terrific gas-piston guns is very close to being a "one-off" custom gun. No-one, and I mean NO-ONE will have parts to fix them.)

I'd build something to be as close as possible to the guns that sit in your local National Guard armory, so, while you may not be able to get a gun from them, you "might" be able to get parts in order to fix it.

A Colt would be nice, but not necessary. And rather than put a bunch of money on rails, optics, etc., I'd invest in as many K of ammo you can afford, as well as in some training to learn how to really use your rifle or carbine.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Real SHTF? Who is going to fix your incredibly rare gas-piston gun when it breaks? (And make no bones about it, each and every one of those terrific gas-piston guns is very close to being a "one-off" custom gun. No-one, and I mean NO-ONE will have parts to fix them.)

I'd build something to be as close as possible to the guns that sit in your local National Guard armory, so, while you may not be able to get a gun from them, you "might" be able to get parts in order to fix it.

A Colt would be nice, but not necessary. And rather than put a bunch of money on rails, optics, etc., I'd invest in as many K of ammo you can afford, as well as in some training to learn how to really use your rifle or carbine.
You have a pretty valid arguement, however, these gas piston ARs are considered a marked improvement on the AR-15 line. Far more reliable, and VERY durable. Yes, anything mechanical can/will fail, but these seem to take alot. Granted, they haven't been around nearly as long as the direct inpingement breed, I would feel confident in owning one. And as Sam Elliot said in We Were Soldiers, by the time he need another one, there will be plenty laying on the ground. (paraphrasing)
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Real SHTF? Who is going to fix your incredibly rare gas-piston gun when it breaks? (And make no bones about it, each and every one of those terrific gas-piston guns is very close to being a "one-off" custom gun. No-one, and I mean NO-ONE will have parts to fix them.)

I'd build something to be as close as possible to the guns that sit in your local National Guard armory, so, while you may not be able to get a gun from them, you "might" be able to get parts in order to fix it.

A Colt would be nice, but not necessary. And rather than put a bunch of money on rails, optics, etc., I'd invest in as many K of ammo you can afford, as well as in some training to learn how to really use your rifle or carbine.
Well the test rifles alone had more than 70,000 rounds through them with only minimal cleanings and zero piston related failures. I'm not too worried about it.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
LWRC would be a good option to POF if money isn't the issue.

All said and told when you start looking at a SHTF scenario the considerations change. If you don't have to relocate then over all weapons weight doesn't much matter, nor will things like batteries etc... that of course is working on the assumption that you are even moderately supplied.

If you have to move, weight immediately becomes a significant issue. If you spent any time in the military and near any unit that was considered "Light" you'll understand immediately. I unfortunately spent 15 months in a Air Assault Unit that did a lot more cross country on foot than in the birds. As a result I learned that even the essentials end up weighing a lot (in my case, with a full combat ammo load that approached 100+ LBS between the ruck and personal carry). Now during that time I lugged around a M16A2 w/ M203.. a heavy pig by anyone's standards... so I've tried to ensure that at least one of my AR's is fairly light weight.

I'd love to have a piston upper such as a POF or LWRC, but I realize that most likely I would grab my Franken AR that is a good couple of pounds lighter than any other I have.

I'm looking forward to serious range reports from you guys that are either getting or have LWRC weapons. And for those with worries about parts.. for very small extra expense, the primary break points of the BGC, LPK parts and or even the Piston system.. can all be had as your own spares. But again I have always advocated having more than 1 weapon.. Murphy is an ever present bastard and he's caught me enough times in the past that I try to minimize his options where I can :)

So I'm going to agree that there is some serious logic to be had in the point that having a weapon that is fairly close to what would in theory be available from local sources is a solid plan.

I still say stay away from batteries, heavy accessories and will add a strong agreement to getting and storing as much ammo as you reasonably can. Have a plan to cache big chunks of it if you have to relocate.. Hell... just have a fricken plan. If nothing else Katrina should have been a serious wake-up call to those of us who have zero faith in our Governments ability to help when it really is needed the most.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
low money and need of SHTF rifle..
iran is knocking..
go out tonight and by a wasr 10 and some x39.
:-D
An ultimate SHTF gun is still an AK47 rifle/pistol; preferably with bayonet, drums, under-folder, and a combination of Russian ammo w/ some AP rounds mixed in.

An ultimate SHTF combo is an AK47 w/ either a 1911, Glock, and XD-45 (my first pick) sidearm.









AR15 (.223) is more appropriate for plinking. I am sure I'll get flamed for this statement since many folks still have "US Mil use it the it must be good." mentality. Well, I am still stuck on "No replacement for displacement" mindset and I don't follow what Mil/LEO trend.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
low money and need of SHTF rifle..
iran is knocking..
go out tonight and by a wasr 10 and some x39.

:-D
First of all, you can buy the version of the gun you want off the rack. No need to "buy parts" and "build." And it will be cheaper.

AR, generally, is a fussy gun, takes relatively more care than an AK, and won't won't operate in SHTF (Sh*t Hits The Firearm) environments. AK, on the other hand, you can knock the mud (sh*t) out of it with a club, dump it in the creek and it's set to go.

Also, there's a zillion AK's out there, and they all pretty much operate with canabalized, mis-matched parts. When SHTF, it's probably gonna involve hoardes with AK's . . . and you want to be able to kill them, salvage their guns, and use their ammo.

That's not going to happen with an AR. Besides which they're spendy and you're broke. The gun you can put in your hand will defend you way better than anything sitting in the window.

-- Or I could be entirely full of horse-poop . . . :rolleyes:
 
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Discussion Starter #17
-- And you'll notice ol' Not So Feinstein has her booger hook on the bang switch. :mrgreen:

Colt uses a proprietary trigger group which won't swap out with anything else -- to keep it from being swapped out with the three-round-burst groups that are available. (They're legal with a Class III Tax Stamp.)

Colt has jumped on the "gun control" band-wagon -- and their sales have suffered as a result. Colt's research into a "smart gun" promises to run them into bankruptcy. Too soon is not soon enough.
 
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Discussion Starter #19
An ultimate SHTF gun is still an AK47 rifle/pistol; preferably with bayonet, drums, under-folder, and a combination of Russian ammo w/ some AP rounds mixed in.

An ultimate SHTF combo is an AK47 w/ either a 1911, Glock, and XD-45 (my first pick) sidearm.
AR15 (.223) is more appropriate for plinking. I am sure I'll get flamed for this statement since many folks still have "US Mil use it the it must be good." mentality. Well, I am still stuck on "No replacement for displacement" mindset and I don't follow what Mil/LEO trend.
You're definately right for quick and dirty work AKs excel.
 
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Discussion Starter #20
So where is the AK thread at?;) Seriously, what's the best AK. I see there are more than 3 different types, Yugo, Russian, etc.....What are the goods and bads about AK's?
 
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