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Discussion Starter #1
So I too jumped in the AR madness the other day. I started with 2 RRA strip lowers, 2 two-stage trigger and parts kit, 2 stocks and had a field day. These were my first builds and I have to say it isn’t as bad as I thought. The first one went a little slow but I assembled the 2nd lower receiver in no time. Here are some pictures.



The start of my CQC AR.


Then the “reach out and touch em” AR.


RRA twins


This is the upper receiver for the CQC (A3 version)
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/pre-ban/bura2b16m4.asp

And then its long distance cousin.
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/post-ban/purvmb249ss.asp

They won’t be complete for a little while but I’m pump to have built the lowers. Now its time to save up for the uppers, bipod for the 24” Varminter and the optics.

Think this looks like a good route? Any suggestions?
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Have you considered white oak armory for the long distance version? You might be happier with 1:7 twist.

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/barrels.htm

My first AR is more a CQB version. I just need an EoTech on it and I'm there.

My second will something like the one below. I don't own it; but I captured the image and solicited some input from the owner, since it's in line with what I want to build. For my #2, I only have an RRA lower.

 
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Discussion Starter #4
Nice I like the picture of the tools, if you don't mind me asking what all tools do you need to put a lower together. Looks like some regular punches a stock wrench and thats about it.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
How many times did you go hunting for a detent pin?

I finally gave up on one of mine and made one out a drill bit shaft the right size.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
jdavionic....
That barrel looks pretty nice. Help a brother out here, can you explain the deal with the twist? I was also looking at RRA with their 1:12 twist (I'm a few beers deep right now so that might be a little off). What is the difference?

With the tools. A couple punches, light hammer, vise-grips, needle nose and some electrical tape to cover vital areas from being scuffed up is all I used. I went to AR15.com and printed up some diagrams and instructions. Here is the exact link.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782

In that thread are some other great instructions more detailed and some good diagrams to help as well. I personally liked using the vise-grip method which can be found if you scroll down in that link. I used a ton of electrical tape to pad the teeth to not mark up my nice RRA lowers. I did however use the punches a little as well.

With the detent springs....A little trial and error and I poped those babies in without to much hassle. I used the needle nose by gripping the detent and applied pressure on the spring and detent, then using the take down pin, pushed and snapped it into place. Almost lost one but I was able to recover it. That was probably the hardest part, otherwise its pretty straight forward.

Now if I can just muster the money to finish the two projects!!! :(
 
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Discussion Starter #7
the other day I was reading up about AR's, as I have one on the way to me soon and I read that if it's a gun you choose to use for either combat or would end up using in a defensive situation ever, I believe they said to stay away from the 1:7, 1:8 twist. I think the reason they gave is that although they are more accurate, they are more prone to jams but with a rifle you use for hunting it's no big deal because you can afford to mess with the jams. I am pretty sure it said 1:9 and above are better for defensive purposes. Anyways if anyone else has anything different to say about this, I'd be glad to hear it.. what I read may not be true so let me know if you know something contrary to that.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
I'm not an expert, but from my understanding the reason you really want to stay away from 1:7 for defensive guns is that it limits you to heavy rounds and limited ammo selection.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
I think there's a lot of false info on the twist ratios. It depends on the purpose of the rifle. If you want consistent accuracy at 500m, then I'd say 1:9 would be fine. If you want to push the envelop and are looking for accuracy at 1000m, then (in my opinion) you will need to use heavier bullets and a barrel with more twists.

jdnep - with respect to jams, I would question those giving you that input. I've never heard of a correlation between twist ratio and rifles jamming. That doesn't make any sense to me and I'd call BS on them.

nightraider - with respect ammo availability, I would say that's not accurate (pun intended). I would agree that you'll pay significantly more for it though. You can find match ammo online from many sources - e.g.,
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=213724
However, the ammo is much more costly - like 3 times or greater than 55gr. But again, it really boils down to the purpose of your particular rifle. If you are seriously wanting to shoot long distance, you can't achieve the same level of accuracy with a 55gr bullet.

Here's a good source that explains twist ratios very well and it's also a great source for info on ammo. If you look down the page, you'll see Q&A on rifle twist.
http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm

I hope this helps. Let me know if I can help further.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks jdavionic, those are some great links with good info in there.

So now I need to do some thinking. Here is what I'm looking for. The M4gery will be shot more often than my distance AR. Probably abused (but abused in a good way) at the range.

At TBS I will qual at 500 yards with iron sights. I want my "varmint type" AR to exceed that range WITH accuracy. So I'm thinking 1:7 with match grade ammo as on the one link that was posted up. I can purchase the complete varmint upper from Bushmaster for the $750 range (I believe that upper is 1:9 but I can't find the specs on their site). If I can piece a 1:7 to a upper around that price, that might be the route I go. Sound like the right direction??

Thanks!
 
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Discussion Starter #13
MarineFlyboy said:
Thanks jdavionic, those are some great links with good info in there.

So now I need to do some thinking. Here is what I'm looking for. The M4gery will be shot more often than my distance AR. Probably abused (but abused in a good way) at the range.

At TBS I will qual at 500 yards with iron sights. I want my "varmint type" AR to exceed that range WITH accuracy. So I'm thinking 1:7 with match grade ammo as on the one link that was posted up. I can purchase the complete varmint upper from Bushmaster for the $750 range (I believe that upper is 1:9 but I can't find the specs on their site). If I can piece a 1:7 to a upper around that price, that might be the route I go. Sound like the right direction??

Thanks!
Sounds like a good plan to me. And actually the plan is essentially the same path I'm going down. My second with a match trigger, WOA 1:7 barrel, free floating, excellent optics, grip with the flat, etc. Of course, you can tell from the replies that you'll get here and see elsewhere. Everyone has an opinion - and many different ones. I certainly encourage folks to research on their own and make their own decisions. I offered my opinion & some sources of info. I hope it helps.

BTW, the Bushmaster version that you posted is a 1:9 twist. They sell DCM competition uppers with a 1:8. Honestly I find their stuff is priced a little high, due to the name. I think their stuff is excellent quality. But I think you can get the same or better quality at a lower price elsewhere.

For me, I've been shopping the WOA barrels -
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/barrels.htm

You may also want to check out the DPMS barrels at Del-Ton -
http://www.del-ton.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=9
 
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Discussion Starter #14
jdavionic said:
nightraider - with respect ammo availability, I would say that's not accurate (pun intended). I would agree that you'll pay significantly more for it though. You can find match ammo online from many sources - e.g.,
You completely missed my point, but I'll try to clarify. Defensive AR's are generally thought of to a tool in crisis situations. Now in a SHTF situation, you will not have the availability of ordering ammo online. Thus the reason I said ammo selection is not near as high. We are talking about going to a local store (like Walmart) and getting ammo, its highly likely you'll just be getting standard, non match grade ammo.

I personally have 2 magazines full of Blackhill Mk 262 Mod 1 for any SHTF situation, but if I do run out of ammo, God forbid, I can always go and get some locally.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
nightraider said:
You completely missed my point, but I'll try to clarify. Defensive AR's are generally thought of to a tool in crisis situations. Now in a SHTF situation, you will not have the availability of ordering ammo online. Thus the reason I said ammo selection is not near as high. We are talking about going to a local store (like Walmart) and getting ammo, its highly likely you'll just be getting standard, non match grade ammo.

I personally have 2 magazines full of Blackhill Mk 262 Mod 1 for any SHTF situation, but if I do run out of ammo, God forbid, I can always go and get some locally.
Well, I won't say that my opinion changes much due to an SHTF scenario, other than to say that I would probably rely on my CQB rifle much more. There are so many "what if" scenarios that I'm sure there's 5 million times the number of opinions on what the most likely one is and how to prepare for it. For me, I would not rely on Wally World or any other store for ammo. IMO, those places and ammo will be the first to be cleaned out. I've got battle packs for my AR, and when the longer range version is built, I will have many, many rounds stocked for it as well. I keep a stock of ammo for my other weapons too.

Not picking an argument here - just offering another perspective.
 
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Discussion Starter #17
I certainly think stockpilling about a 1000 rounds is a good idea. However in the event that I'm not able to get to the ammo or something happens to it, its nice to know that most stores that carry ammo will have the right thing for my AR with a 1:9 twist.
 
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