To grease, or not to grease... | AR15 Forums

To grease, or not to grease...

Discussion in 'AR Talk' started by newxder50, Aug 28, 2014.

  1. newxder50

    newxder50 Guest

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    Building my upper soon and I am trying to figure out a few things,


    1) Is it necessary to torque down the barrel to 30 ft lbs and then loosen it again, up to 2x, before final tighten?


    2) Should I oil/grease the outside of the barrel extension and inside of the upper before inserting the barrel into the upper?


    3) Is it common practice to lube the threads with anti-seize grease prior to screwing on the barrel nut?


    That's it for now...your answers help so please comment, oh, I just realized that a lot of dudes read this and most of our collective minds will go to the gutter as you read about "greasing" inside and out and "insertion," and "screwing" but, can we keep it professional? Thanks.
     
  2. taylorjr

    taylorjr Guest

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    30 ft-lb minimum, 80 ft-lb maximum. Grease or oil the threads, and tighten and loosen 2 to 3 times to set the threads and time the gas tube holes correctly. I use the biggest drill bit possible to time them up right. No need to lube the barrel extension.

    Yes, common practice. Don't have to use mil-spec stuff, regular high weight oil or lithium grease will work just fine.
     
  3. Mercmar

    Mercmar Guest

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    I recently made the mistake of using nonmetallic anti-seize on the receiver threads. first time i ever had nut seize, during many builds.
     
  4. Knightslugger

    Knightslugger Guest

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    a light oil is what I use, but yes you aught to loosen and retorque in stages so that the threads grip nicely. depending on how you shoot it (mag dump) it don't matter what you have on there, it's gonna burn off.
     
  5. R3dbull4dd1kt

    R3dbull4dd1kt Guest

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    Honest question: Is the torque/reTorque the same idea as doing the same thing on Head Studs for an overhead Camshaft Motor--ie it 'pulls' the threads and leads to a more consistent lock-up when heat is applied and removed (shrink and swell)?

    I will be doing my first build from parts (stripped upper/barrel etc) this winter and wanna make sure I understand the dynamics...

    excellent inquiry OP...
     
  6. Knightslugger

    Knightslugger Guest

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    LOL I do it because I'm told to. I don't understand the physics of what i'm doing! That's all rocket science talk to me! There's a video from the Nordlock washer people that are talking way over my head, but they sound smart. ;) anyway i thought i heard them say that lubricated threads give more even pressure on the threads. makes sense to me...?
     
  7. newxder50

    newxder50 Guest

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    Recommendations on grease needed for the threads?
     
  8. taylorjr

    taylorjr Guest

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    Oil or metallic grease. It could be Hoppes' Oil, or it could be Rotella diesel oil. doesn't matter.
     
  9. HB of CJ

    HB of CJ Guest

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    Dry. Torquing the barrel up properly is the most time consuming and difficult part of the build. You will need two barrel vise jaws, a hunk of indoor outdoor carpet and a good click torque wrench. Also lots of patience.

    Also a high quality 5 or 6 inch smooth jaw bolted bench vise is necessary. Do not fudge.

    This applies only with OEM front and rear sites and OEM barrel nut. Make sure your hand guard slip ring is correct and not backwards. Dead center correct alignment for that pesky gas tube is needed. Vise up the barrel.

    Use the carpet to pad it from scratches. Usually the barrel vise jaws are aluminum. Torque it up very tight. You do not want the barrel to slip in the carpet. Install the upper on the barrel extension. The receiver should float.

    Gently torque up to about 35 pounds. Eyeball the gas tube knotches in the barrel nut to that dinky silly small hole in the front of the upper. The alignment must be very close. Finish torquing to about 40-42 pounds. The gas tube alignment now must be perfect.

    Install the gas tube and roll pin it. Now invert your upper barreled group, strip the bolt from your carrier and drop the carrier, (with key installed) down into the upper. The key should not touch the gas tube not one bit. Should slide completely free. Do not bend the gas tube.

    You will not get this on the first several tries. The barrel nut knotches will NOT line up with the receiver hole with the barrel torqued at 40-42 pounds. Corrective Action; Remove the barrel. Gently sand the front of the upper receiver with 400 dry paper using a flat hard surface.

    Just remove a little. Takes practice for sure. Just remove the anodizing to start. Do not remove any material. Re vice and re torque the barrel again. You want the knotches to line up exactly with the receiver hole with the barrel torqued up at 40-42 pounds. This is difficult.

    If you take off too much, you will have to go to the next knotch. This will NOT hurt the build. But be careful so you do not do this. Go slow. It might take 3-5 times before everything lines up PERFECTLY. The stripped carrier with key installed should never touch the gas tube. Dry. No lube at all.

    This does not address indexing up the barrel so your OEM sights front and rear line up perfectly centered within 4 clicks. This help only applies to the barrel torquing. Are we having fun yet? You can do this. It is fun. Also do not use the receiver clamps.

    The barrel should be vised. The receiver should float. To do it backwards invites eventual upper receiver cracking. Yep. Hope this helps. HB of CJ (old coot) (hundreds of AR build, who knows how many M16 rebuilds) Long ago and far away.
     
  10. newxder50

    newxder50 Guest

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    Thanks for the detailed instructions buddy.
     
  11. Mercmar

    Mercmar Guest

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    The last thing i'd want to do would be to insult anybody on this forûm, but, in my humble opinion, those authoritative-sounding instructions are fallacious.

    I've bult a lot of ars, and my ars never fail. Whether the gas tube hole lines up at 42# is irrelevant to the process. Grease the threads. Set the torque wrench on about 35_ 45#. If the hole lines up, stop. If not, add a little torque unil they're aligned. I use a clamshell upper block. Has worked for me and hundreds of thousands of others for years. If you don't trust eyeballing the alignment, a small rod is available for inserting into the gas key for alignment checking.
     
  12. taylorjr

    taylorjr Guest

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    Or a #15 drill bit works too.

    Yes they are.

    Use lube.
     
  13. HB of CJ

    HB of CJ Guest

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    Well well, I just guess we agree to disagree. We will let the many viewers of this fine Forum decide. For what it may be worth, when experienced information becomes available on how to do something a better way, perhaps the answer should be to acknowledged such and everybody carrying on. Just passing it forward. HB of CJ (old coot) (hundreds of AR15 builds, uncounted M16 rebuilds) Long ago and far away.

    Some more. I went to all the time to post what I posted so others will learn from past hard-learned experience actually doing it. When other equal or superior, less time consuming methods of barrel torquing become available, then at that time feel free to provide input on the better way. I am always open minded on new and better ways to do things. The man had a question and I answered it the best way I know how.

    Mercer; please PEM me if you feel the need. Thank you. Henry
     
  14. Mercmar

    Mercmar Guest

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    No need for a p.m. As you said, let those with walking-about sense separate the wheat from the horsehockey.:cool:
     
  15. HB of CJ

    HB of CJ Guest

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    Horsehockie? Well, that pretty much ends this. Right now I am just thinking out loud to myself that there is a difference between those who have been there and done that than those who believe, for whatever reason, that they have also. Respectfully.

    If somebody can come up with a better, quicker, safer way to properly torque up an AR15 barrel, feel free to jump in here. Until that happens, I will treat this excellent Forum with all the respect due. Passing it forward. Respectfully. HB of CJ (old coot)

    Mercer: Respectfully again, I feel quite comfy letting the many intelligent viewers of this Fine Forum decide which way is the best way to torque up an AR15 barrel. Now they have options on how to do it properly. Isn't that what this Forum is for?

    If one does not fully understand what others have posted here, would it not be better to just say that one does not understand? To do otherwise insults the intelligence of many. I for one consider myself lucky to be able to pass along hard learned into.
     
  16. newxder50

    newxder50 Guest

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    I appreciate everyone's input...anybody have a specific lithium based grease they use regularly that I can get at my local auto parts store? Tried ordering Aeroshell MS 33 and Royco 64 but don't want to wait and don't want to pay for shipping either.
     
  17. einheit 13

    einheit 13 Guest

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    Wow, just read this. Go ahead and use all the grease or oil you want. Lube isn't needed. Did you know that liquid lube can give you a false torque reading?? Anti seize should only be used on ferrous to non ferrous joints that are exposed to threats of eating each other. Anti-seize should be used on connections that will be repeatedly taken apart.

    Did you know that you can torque that barrel down to 100 ft/lbs, go and shoot it and get it all hot and after it cools, you won't get the same torque value that you started with?? Did you know that the torque will increase as the heat increases?? That is when a crack will show up. that torque value is based on expansion. Get it too tight and receiver can see up to 3 times the stress because now it starts expanding in areas that aren't meant to be stressed certain ways.

    Most of you will probably call BS on every approach that isn't the easy 'down and dirty' approach, but you can't argue with physics, material properties, and expansion rates/work loads/stress factors.

    What HB is referencing is thread timing. And thread timing minimizes stress on mechanical joints. Do it correctly and that connection is at it's absolute strongest, aligned, and free of unnecessary stress. All of you that want to scoff at it, send your weapon in for dynamic stress testing. 10-1 his connection will outlast yours.

    And any good weapon builder worth his salt knows what timing the barrel nut does. A slap together weapon will never be as good as a hand fitted weapon. Don't believe me?? put a RRA 1911 up against a Wilson for accuracy and durability.

    Yea, that is what I thought.
     
  18. Knightslugger

    Knightslugger Guest

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    OK, but you don't site maximums... or any specifics. so what good does this info give us?
     
  19. Itzdapig

    Itzdapig Guest

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    I always thoroughly clean all the threads before I start as well.
     
  20. einheit 13

    einheit 13 Guest

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    Above 92+ you start damaging the thread, you have just entered the 'yield'. That is when the threads on the weakest material pull and distort and become out of spec and is more susceptible to failure of the connection or damage to the upper beyond the threads.....
     

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