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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Gentlemen,

At 68, I'm an old guy (Vietnam era Marine Infantry Officer). I just joined the forum today, and I want to thank those of you who have e-mailed me (I posted my e-mail address with my first post) with welcomes.

And, because of my INTIMATE FAMILIARITY WITH THE M-16 during the NAM and because I am an owner of two AR-15's (one for me and the other for my wife) I already feel at home here. And, I'm liking the comradely e-mails I've received. Thanks to those who have written to me.

So, if you don't mind I'd like to start of with a question which most of you will seem trivial. Sorry about that.

Here it is...my ARs run iron sights.

And, you can bet I know how to zero them. Due to my military experience, I zero them to 300 yards but with the intention to use the "heart, head, hat" method of of range finding beyond that. Everything within 300 yards is easy to range by just dropping the aiming point 1a bit. In combat, I never missed with this technique (I'm not bragging...oh, maybe I am, but I never qualified less than expert with any weapons system I fired).

My irons are dead on with the impact that my chronograph (for muzzle velocity) with my external ballistics software predictions. But, and here's the kicker, when I independently zero the Red Dot Sight looking for co-witness where the dot should ride above the front sight post...well...it doesn't. Indeed, when illuminated it seems to well off the top of the iron front post site to the left. Now, it's about the same height in the sight picture, but, its displaced to the left and at the same level as the tip of the front sight post.

Interestingly, I don't see this with my wife's AR. The co-witness is perfect. The red dot is exactly and immediately above the front sight post. So, I'm stumped.

What am I doing wrong with my AR? Thank you in advance for responding to this query.

Best,

David
 

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Sounds like you love the AR and the good old GI iron sights! Same here sir. Just recently got back into the AR platform and boy did I miss her. Nothing like it, in my humble opinion.

Based on what you wrote, I would think the problem MUST be in the optic itself. Forgive me if this is obvious but did you try switching the red dot scopes between the two rifles? Or are we talking about running the same optic on these two rifles?

P.S. Thank you for your service!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I do love the irons...fought a war with them.

I'm pleased to see that you too are fond of the AR-15 platform. It's so M-16-like! Well, it is but for all the crap I've got hanging off mine now. The M-16 was as sleek as a dancing Las Vegas model. Comparatively speaking my ARs look like they came from outer space. But it's fun the play with new toys, right?

Actually, I only put red-dots on the rifles because of my wife who's not all that comfortable (or accurate) with just irons.

I hadn't thought about doing the switchy-changy of the two optics between guns (I run separate optics on each rifle). Will give it a try. Thanks.

You're welcome for my service...about 8 years, 4 devoted to the war and 4 afterwards.

I'd have stayed in as a career, indeed my commanding officer wanted me to transfer to Division Embarkation (1st Mar Div) as I was pretty good at it. But the Marine Corps long in garrison vs. having a foreign military commitment is just a place where drugs, alcohol and officer pettiness are the rule rather than the exception. If I'd have become a permanent staff officer at Division vs. just doing embarkation as an additional duty I'd have had to put up with all the bureaucratic crap of garrison Marine-ing forever.

Not for me. Furthermore, at the time I had a chance to go to medical school.

So, I became a real civilian and 4 years later with a Ph.D. in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology from Baylor College of Medicine in Houston I began a career as a medical research scientist. Retired two years ago.

Now that I left the Corps I never look back...except on it's birthday each year when I get together with other former Marines (of all former ranks), tell lies, drink too much and piss off our wives.

Thanks again for the reply.

Best,

David
[email protected]
 

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I know what you mean about the different feel of an old "high-speed, low drag" M16 vs. some newer variants. The old triangle handguards fit my large hands well too. :cool:

Stoner did a good job of designing a new, very light rifle. Even the move from his first designs to the A1 didn't add that much weight. That skinny barrel really made her a handy platform, with great balance since most of the weight was behind the mag well.

By comparison, the later A2 added a lot of weight with the heavier barrel, new sights, new stock and forearm. If you ever handle the so-called "HBAR" rifles in 20-iinch- they are even heavier! These are the fat barrels that became popular back in the early 2000s when many new AR15 manufacturers sprang up. They are accurate as heck and keep their groups tight because it takes a lot to heat them up. But nowhere near as handy as the old rifles. These things feel like an M1 Garand! If you look under the handguards, the barrel looks like a banana, twice as fat as the service barrels.

I set up a rifle as close as I could to an old M16 style, many years ago. It had a skinny late 60s Colt barrel and an upper with A1 sights and no forward assist. I found surplus A1 triangular handguards and stock too. What a beautiful rifle! She was light, smooth and I felt like I couldn't miss with those A1 sights. That was one rifle I always regret sending away. :(

Good luck with the red dot issues.
 

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I use an EOTECH. Why? Because its an instant switch to use my iron sights should the reticle shutoff: Iron sights will never go bad, run out of battery life, or break a glass cover. I even used 45 degree offset iron sights in gas the glass got blcoked by mud, dirt, etc, and I clulndt see thru the optics I will never own a rifle or handgun that does not have iron sights

22 years in USASOC, with ten years in JSOC in combat... And in my carrer field, you didn't get staff jobs as a E9 or O4. You were still one of the Boys hitting the OBJ

The M4 type collaspable stocks were genuis. When body armor really began to be issued, that was the real reason the adjustable stock came in to account (The XM 177 had an adjustable stock to account for the old, "flak jacket", and was made shorter for bush fighting), but todays adjustable stock was made for the bulky body armor in the armpit area, and is more forgiving to the shorter arm shooters. I dont prefer the A1-A3 versions only because, frankly, they are too long for close confines such as rooms or vehicles. The twist in the modern barrels were placed there for longer range shots outside of close confines. I beleive the round handguards are a better option: To me, its just a better grip than the triangular version. Round is the natural position for a palm grip and has more surface contact. And the round grips have ridges to help the grip. The old triangular ones were slick as CLP. The old fixed rear stock needed to go. Arm lengths, urban combat, various types of body armor, dictated an adjustable stock

But later on in my carrer we switched to the 5.56 and 7.62 version of the SCAR, that didnt have adjustble stocks: Go figure

But bottom line, I agree: Iron sights are the way to go. Various optics and electric powered sights are great tools, but iron sights are in the very top of my toolbox
 
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